Speaking of PHRF ratings. A question...

svShearwater · January 27, 2014, 04:44:40 PM

So I just received my 2014 rating. Our largest headsail is now only 120% LP instead of the typical 150% LP for our boat. Also, our largest spinnaker is now 1400 sq. ft. instead of the standard 1650 sq. ft. Given those too "significant" sail reductions, I was surprised my rating changed exactly 0. So, does that mean that I can still run my 150% genoa and big spinnaker even though they are not listed as the max sail areas on my rating certificate?

JayZ · January 27, 2014, 05:48:39 PM

PHRF will look at your certificate. It is possible a mistake was made. Julie at HYC passed away and the new admin assistant is just now getting up to speed.

Maarten · January 27, 2014, 06:34:30 PM

Now we are on this. I noticed that the website doesn't reflect Joan 3's PHRF correctly.

JayZ · January 27, 2014, 07:14:52 PM

All,

The up to date "real" database is housed at HYC.

It is a manual process to transfer database to the web based database.

We know it is a problem and are attempting to address it and come up with a more modern solution.

This is old technology we are dealing with here...

JayZ · January 27, 2014, 07:17:40 PM

...by modern I mean we hope to have the web database updated as timely as possible.

Bee · January 27, 2014, 07:31:27 PM

Julie passed away!!!!! That's terrible. She was a keeper for sure. Very nice lady. When did this happen?

JayZ · January 27, 2014, 07:43:19 PM

Yes sad for sure Bee. I dont recall the exact date but i think around October.

BJSailor · January 27, 2014, 08:04:19 PM

Quote from: svShearwater on January 27, 2014, 04:44:40 PM
So I just received my 2014 rating. Our largest headsail is now only 120% LP instead of the typical 150% LP for our boat. Also, our largest spinnaker is now 1400 sq. ft. instead of the standard 1650 sq. ft. Given those too "significant" sail reductions, I was surprised my rating changed exactly 0. So, does that mean that I can still run my 150% genoa and big spinnaker even though they are not listed as the max sail areas on my rating certificate?

Rather than challenging your rating, you might want to ask some questions of the PHRF folks and get more information about what the "gates" are in rating your boat.
For example, perhaps in order to get a 3 second bonus your headsail must be 115% LP or smaller and your 120% doesn't make the "gate" to get the bonus. Same with your chute - you might ask about the square footage or whatever chute measurement they use to see why you didn't get the bonus for a smaller chute. Again, you might have a chute that isn't quite small enough.
Rather than be contentious, try getting the whole story and understand how / why your rating was assigned as it was. Some folks truly don't like PHRF (or whatever rating system they are being graded by - including one-design measurements) but most of them never ask the "why" question and get the facts about how they were assigned their rating. There will always be a vocal minority who complain no matter what number they get. Most of them just need to work on their preparation and practice. Vince Lombardi - "Perfect Prior Practice Prevents Piss Poor Performance" - I've always liked that one...

JayZ · January 27, 2014, 08:28:41 PM

Quote from: BJSailor on January 27, 2014, 08:04:19 PM
Quote from: svShearwater on January 27, 2014, 04:44:40 PM
So I just received my 2014 rating. Our largest headsail is now only 120% LP instead of the typical 150% LP for our boat. Also, our largest spinnaker is now 1400 sq. ft. instead of the standard 1650 sq. ft. Given those too "significant" sail reductions, I was surprised my rating changed exactly 0. So, does that mean that I can still run my 150% genoa and big spinnaker even though they are not listed as the max sail areas on my rating certificate?
Rather than challenging your rating, you might want to ask some questions of the PHRF folks and get more information about what the "gates" are in rating your boat.
For example, perhaps in order to get a 3 second bonus your headsail must be 115% LP or smaller and your 120% doesn't make the "gate" to get the bonus. Same with your chute - you might ask about the square footage or whatever chute measurement they use to see why you didn't get the bonus for a smaller chute. Again, you might have a chute that isn't quite small enough.
Rather than be contentious, try getting the whole story and understand how / why your rating was assigned as it was. Some folks truly don't like PHRF (or whatever rating system they are being graded by - including one-design measurements) but most of them never ask the "why" question and get the facts about how they were assigned their rating. There will always be a vocal minority who complain no matter what number they get. Most of them just need to work on their preparation and practice. Vince Lombardi - "Perfect Prior Practice Prevents Piss Poor Performance" - I've always liked that one...

...like I said, we'll look at it tomorrow. Mistakes happen and something may not have been entered correctly, but you are right not every change you make that causes your boat to go slower gets you a PHRF credit.

svShearwater · January 28, 2014, 12:02:25 PM

I hope my post wasn't contentious. If there was a mistake, then that is great. If my sails don't meet the cut-off gates, then that is fine too, and my question about still using the larger sails applies.

Please don't let my surprise be taken as contention. Just a question.

Thanks.

svShearwater · January 28, 2014, 12:34:11 PM

It's probably neither here nor there, but I made an error in my original post. The standard class kite for a J/120 is around 1729 sq. ft., not 1650 sq. ft.

Bee · January 28, 2014, 03:58:40 PM

WOW. That's huge. 50 sq mt more then my 110.

Bee · January 28, 2014, 04:07:34 PM

Interesting. My 89 is roughly 81 percent of the 110. ( I'm a mathematician so I cannot do arithmetic very well)
Your 1400 is roughly 81 percent of the 1729.

If I choose to run with the OD class configuration the 89 gets me 9 seconds a mile. However, in that case my jib is 102%.

How does your current PHRF number compare to Liston's or Gault's J120 PHRF. I seem to remember
from the HMR that you had a 6 second advantage over them.

svShearwater · January 28, 2014, 04:08:19 PM

A picture is worth... Any wonder why we are downsizing or Double-Handing?

svShearwater · January 28, 2014, 04:15:54 PM

They currently owe us 3 seconds. As it currently stands for the 3 second penalty Rebecca gets a carbon mast, 150% genoa, big class size kite, and no roller furling. I think Aeolus has roller furling, but I'm not positive. We obviously have roller furling and an aluminum mast.

I've seen examples of the mast alone being a 3 second difference and the roller furling being a 3 second difference.

By the way, PHRFGB did call me today and they are looking into my rating.

And, to be clear, I am not complaining. I am only stating facts (to the best of my knowledge) and asking a simple question. This is not a life or death decision for me. I will be perfectly fine regardless of the outcome.