I registered my classic 39yr old Flying Dutchman for the cruising class and received a PHRF rating of 87. Do I have to have a minimum of 400lbs of weight under my boat to be able to race?
Thanks for any guidance,
Steve
Steve,
The cruising class was formed so that heavier cruising boats with loads of extra equipment could race competitively against each other. The handicaps are adjusted after each regatta or series race based on how the boats actually finished. The handicapper will generally give a lower rating (sometimes much lower than her normal PHRF rating) to boats designed for racing. This is partly to discourage racing boats to win everything right off the bat. If the boat continues to participate, the rating will adjust up or down accordingly.
A couple of suggestions:
1. Attempt to get a PHRF rating from PHRF Galveston Bay (maybe you've already done this, I don't know), and race PHRF, or
2. Get a group of like-minded portsmith boats, figure out your starting times, and go race. If there is enough particpation GBCA would probably consider another rum race class (if most of them are members of GBCA of course!)
Walter
Thanks Walter. I will try to get at rating from PHRF GB.
New England PHRF rates the Flying Dutchman12 at 87...
Thanks Ed.
Does anyone know if I can just use the New England PHRF rating or do I need to get a specific rating from PHRF Galveston Bay? I'm not sure how to get the measurement that they asking for on the PHRF GB form. I'll figure it out if I need the GB rating.
check this out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Dutchman_(dinghy)
Is this the boat?
PHRF 150
J
John, that is definitely the boat. The Flying Dutchman 12 that New England PHRF rated at 87 is evidently a keelboat of some kind. It's interesting the PHRF rating is listed as a spec in the right column on the page. It's also nice to see the measurements that were provided for future reference. Interestingly they show the weight of the boat as being 290lbs...unfortunately mine has got to be closer to 450lbs to 500lbs. I know that I have picked up a few pounds since 1974 as well!
Does anyone know if I can use the spec listed as my PHRF rating or do I need something more official???
I think that at the end of the day I will just need to get out there and race. If I win (unlikely) I will disqualify myself whereas if I lose I will blame the rating!!!
Does anyone know what it is that I need to provide just so I can enter the Rum Race???
Thanks for everyone's help and comments!
yep....that rating I posted goes to a 50 foot keelboat that used to be built in Taiwan...sorry!
FD, my understanding is that you should get a Galveston Bay PHRF certificate. The Sailing Instructions for the Rum Race series allow for you to get a provisional rating by contacting GBCA, if you don't have one yet. Look at Section VII of the SI's on the GBCA.org website. To get a PHRF certificate, go to www.phrfgb.com.
The PHRF National database had no listing for the Flying Dutchman, but the PHRFNE site did have the 87, so I went with that. In the GBCA Cruising Class, boats that participate enough and TURN IN THEIR FINISH TIME, will find themselves competitive over time as their rating continually adjusts. If the initial rating is way off, it will take quite some time to adjust to the median fleet, with much gnashing of teeth. I always figure it's better to have one boat miffed than the other 100, so the initial rating is usually low for racier boats. And it's usually pretty close ;)
Fair winds,
Kevin
That boat is found here
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2714
a Flying Dutchman 12:weighs 35000 pounds and is 42 ft long
Give him his 150. Since it is calculated from DPN, it will be a lot closer, but still wrong
btw, that boat is not found in the PHRFNE Valid list!
Found a D-PN rating for the northeast for the Flying Dutchman of 82.6.. Found a conversion formula of PHRF= (D-PN - 55)*6, which gives a PHRF rating of 165. Sounds about right.
Charles.
From the PHRFGB website, "There are no hull restrictions other than the self-righting requirement." Unless your FD is self-righting, it looks like no PHRF rating will be issued.
Quote
The Flying Dutchman (FD) is a 20-foot one-design high-performance two-person monohull racing dinghy. Developed in the early 1950s, its large sail area per unit weight allow it to plane easily when sailing upwind. The boat utilizes a trapeze harness for the crew and hiking straps for the skipper to counterbalance the wind force on its sails. It made its Olympic debut at the 1960 Olympics Games.
WOW, an upwind planing boat with a PHRF of 150. Pretty amazing. Are harnesses allowed?
Steve,
Back to your original question: What do you need to participate in the Rum Races? You need a PHRF rating, so that you know when to start according to start time table found at the back of the SI?s.
http://www.gbca.org/resources/Documents/2013%20Rum%20Race%20SI%20-%20Amended.pdf
You can apply for a PHRF rating from the local board at:
Performance Handicap Racing Fleet of Galveston Bay, Inc.
Post Office Box 1276
La Porte, TX 77572-1276
Phone: (281) 471-1255 (HYC)
Email: phrfgb@gmail.com
http://www.phrfgb.com/index.asp
Unfortunately, most PHRF boards around the country will not give a PHRF handicap rating to a board boat, or boats less than 20 feet for various reasons. Length, weight, keel, righting moment, etc.
We don?t want to discourage you. Quite the opposite, we want more boats to come out and participate.
According to the SI?s, we can still give you a ?Provisional? rating until a valid rating is obtained. In searching for sister-ship ratings for the Flying Dutchman (20? dingy) returns none. Which may prove that board boats are not handicapped under PHRF ratings. Board boats are typically rated under the Portsmouth Yardstick handicap system. There is a US Sailing posted conversion for Yardstick to PHRF. In researching Portsmouth Yardstick, I have found ratings of 80.1 to 82.6 Converting these returns a PHRF rating of 151 ? 166. Given that, I will assign your provisional rating as 151 in Spinnaker and 166 in Non-Spinnaker.
As mentioned previously, your rating in the Cruising Club will be harsh in order to discourage ?racing boats? from impinging on the spirit of the Cruising Class. This rating will change after each and every race based upon your results. Yes, racing boat: Flying Dutchman + Olympic Class = Racing Boat. ;)
Now, all you need to decide is in which class you wish to participate:
- Spinnaker with a rating of 151, flying a white flag.
- Non-Spinnaker with a rating of 166, flying a dark flag.
- Cruising Club with a rating of 87 (or to what ever it gets revised), flying an orange flag.
- There is also the SOS (short handed) class using the same ratings as Spin or NonSpin. But, short handed on a two person boat is a misnomer and not considered Corinthian.
Read the the SI?s to ensure you fulfill your responsibilities should you be first to finish.
Attention is called to RRS 4: Decision to Race, ?The responsibility for a boat?s decision to participate in a race or to continue racing is hers alone.? There is no race committee for the rum races to make this decision.
Good luck out there and be sure to come by the GBCA club house for the apr?s racing camaraderie.
Thanks,
Christopher Dees
Fleet Captain
Wow, thanks for all the responses and support! It's nice to be a member of such an active and engaged club.
If the water is somewhat flat, FD's fly (no pun intended). If there is a 1 to 2 foot chop they can't get up enough speed to generate the apparent wind that will enable them to point at all. I think that the average between the two conditions is how they come up with the 150 rating. In looking at some of the FD forums throughout the world, a rating of 130 seems to make the most sense and appears to be the most common. That said, I tend to agree with Bee in that the 150 or even 130, though nice to have, seems a little high to me. I also like Kevin's perspective that if you give a new guy with a fast boat a high rating, you tend to upset a lot of people and make one guy happy. If the new guy has a low rating and the club is willing to make him competitive over time, I think that everyone wins. I am going to go with the later. I just wanted a way to participate in the race on my own boat. I'll plan on starting with the J/105's and race in the spin class. Anyone is the spin class can object and I will start later. If it looks like the bay is going to be real choppy I am will abandon ship (at least my FD) and try to bum a ride with someone.
I'm looking forward to getting my boat out there! Thanks for allowing me to race!!!
Steve
Steve:
Did not mean to be negative. Something I seem to be able to do without thinking.
Some 40 years ago I sailed on a FD in OK on Keystone lake. We pretty much stunk up the place, but as I recall the boat was a lot of fun. Only did it a handful of times before the owner bought a Flying Scot (I think he liked the word flying). He had me doing bow. Nothing like having 236# (what I weighed then) on the nose of a boat that small. Adds new meaning to the phrase "put the bow down." My only gripe with these boats was that there was not enough space for a sufficient amount of cold beer.
When you do the Rum Race spin you will not be competing against the 105's you will be competing against non-sprit things like the 1D35 Revolution (33), the 36.7 Picante (78) at the top end (low numbers) of the PHRF scale and Silver Bullet at the bottom (171). These guys are really good sailors so your work will be cut out for you.
If the FD had a sprit you would be competing mostly against the GP26 Pingo and the two Melges 24's, both of which, in my opinion, have very nice PHRF numbers. Again, boats sailed by really good sailors. There is also a J70 or two that are sailed superbly so you would have to be on your toes.
Good Luck out there and don't forget to take enough beer to keep the crew happy. If Stinger should ever get close yell loudly. We have been known to supply dry sailors on other boats from our beer overstock.
OK, we have everything from this 30,000lb Leviathan to a 300lb mayfly. In the true spirit of the GBCA Cruising Class, how ?bout we let the Chicken parse this pickle. You will get a three digit rating. Like Wheel of Fortune, we?ll give you the first number as a ?1?. Then the Chicken will determine the next two with its delicious sacrifice.
I say we settle this like Men. Gambling Men, who may or may not dabble in Santeria. That?s nobody else?s business.
Beer Overstock?...Stinger?....
It has happened once or twice Ed. At the moment I am allowed only one per race so. You know what my share used to be so go figure.
Quote from: Bee on September 02, 2013, 08:01:39 AM
It has happened once or twice Ed. At the moment I am allowed only one per race so. You know what my share used to be so go figure.
He fails to mention his rum rations!
And I did not say who my bartender was either.