I have run many Icicle and Rum races over the years and I have seen my share of violations of the RRS and the no luffing rule. However, generally these violations were handled in a corinthian spirit wherein the violator willing and automatically accepted his or her responsibility and withdrew from the race.
Today I watch a first place boat foul the second place boat. This foul was blatant. The starboard boat was forced to tack in order to avoid the port tack boat. Had the starboard boat not changed direction there certainly would have been a collision. I was confident that the violator would own-up to his error and withdraw from the race. I should have known better. In some circumstances winning is more important then fairness.
Today the first place boat won only because he refused to admit his error.
I surmise that if we are going to adhere to the RRS, we definitely need a formal protest committee. Sad but I cannot see any alternative.
BTW, I am not claiming that I have never violated the rules. I am sure there are circumstances where I did and probably did not respond appropriately. I am talking about the ability to protest anyone. Me included.
I'm certainly happy to own up to being the other party. Im also in agreement that the crossing was very close. But it wasn't as 'blatant' to me as it was to you, Bee. I believe your response was 'nice crossing'. The message to us from that was that close is all it was. I get no pleasure out of winning at the expense of fairness, so I will withdraw from this race. But I do recommend for future situations that a well placed 'protest' would have been clearer. Not everybody's intentions are as sinister as you describe, Bee.
Sorry Al. I guess it was the rum talking. Rum makes one dumb. In my case, I seem to have a lock on stupidity. Should not have used the word blatant. My apologies. As you are aware, I do not like the word blatant very much myself. I doubt if there is anyone on the Bay that thinks you are someone who takes the rules lightly or every does anything blatantly. We all think of you as being top notch.
I was talking about what I saw relative to Hamburg/Pingo. Stinger may not have been close enough to be an expert witness, but it did appear to be a foul. From your explanation, I see that I was in error.
I was definitely irritated by the Hamburg/Stinger crossing and it definitely played a roll in what I said above. Even though Stinger did have to alter course a bit to avoid collision, she did not have to tack and probably only lost a foot or two in the exchange. I did not yell protest and, consequently, would not have won in any protest room. I think you still would have won the race had you dimply done a 360. Hamburg is always sailed extremely well. I appreciate your withdrawal, but am sure you would still have finished ahead of Stinger.
I still believe we need a mechanism or process by which we could at least indicate a protest and resolve it. Maybe just go through the standard process --- yell protest at the time and fly the flag --- but discuss the issue afterward one-on-one rather then in a protest room. Everyone but me probably knows this already. Not even sure that will work with a stupid hot head like me :P but its worth a shot. This grumpy old phart needs to get a life.
Thanks for your measured response. It is appreciated.
It's actually two 360's, except on Wednesday nights...
My mistake. Under J105 OD rules its two 360's only if the foul occurs at a mark.
The perception from another boat can be deceiving. For example, as we were motoring in from H in race 4, it appeared to me that Stinger jibed and crossed between us and #2 after the race ended at 1500. But apparently she finished in time because she was scored as 5th place.
Could be. Whatever is fine with me.
We all thought we finished just before the deadline, but have Bob change it if you like.
Stinger has withdrawn from Icicle 4.
Quote from: Bee on February 01, 2016, 10:00:45 AM
We all thought we finished just before the deadline, but have Bob change it if you like.
Were you running that Fancy IPHONE APP of yours? ...that would tell you when you finished. No?
Yeah, but don't care. Walter is correct either way.
Bee, I did not know that about the 105 class rules, interesting!
It seems that would entice closer port / starboard crossings? Does it or about the same?
Jeff,
A lot of local regattas have been making use of the US Sailing prescriptions Appendix T for the last couple of years (but you probably know that!):
SECTION A
PENALTIES WHILE RACING
If Section A applies, rule T1 shall be included in the sailing
instructions.
T1 PENALTIES AT THE TIME OF THE INCIDENT
The first two sentences of rule 44.1 are changed to: 'A boat may take a
One-Turn Penalty when she may have broken a rule of Part 2 or rule 31
while racing. However, when she may have broken a rule of Part 2
while in the zone around a mark other than a starting mark, her penalty
shall be a Two-Turns Penalty.'
http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Race%20Admin/Racing%20Rules/Documents/2013-2016.US.Sailing.Prescriptions.rev.06.24.14.pdf
(http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Race%20Admin/Racing%20Rules/Documents/2013-2016.US.Sailing.Prescriptions.rev.06.24.14.pdf)
Jeff. As far as I can tell the one-turn penalty makes no difference. It does tend to keep the racing a bit closer.
No Walter, I didn't know that but thanks for making me aware!
Quote from: Bee on February 01, 2016, 09:06:46 AM
My mistake. Under J105 OD rules its two 360's only if the foul occurs at a mark.
Please keep in mind, we are not racing J-105 OD rules on Icicle or Rum races, especially with the huge chute, large Genoa and code 0. We must follow the RRS as prescribed by the NOR of the event. You can't claim exception to certain rules because of OD rules, when racing handicap.
Oh, thank you for the lecture Scott. I, of course, would never have know that.
Perhaps you should remember that each 105 has the option to choose a class sail PHRF certificate of 87. Please do not force a boat with an 87 to sail with a 78.
Quote from: STuma on March 09, 2016, 07:57:14 AM
Quote from: Bee on February 01, 2016, 09:06:46 AM
My mistake. Under J105 OD rules its two 360's only if the foul occurs at a mark.
Please keep in mind, we are not racing J-105 OD rules on Icicle or Rum races, especially with the huge chute, large Genoa and code 0. We must follow the RRS as prescribed by the NOR of the event. You can't claim exception to certain rules because of OD rules, when racing handicap.
OK, OK, OK, I was wrong. Commandment V in the sailor's "bible" makes this completely clear
http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2016/05/03/ten-commandments-beercan-racing-2/
makes this clear:
VI) Thou shalt not protest thy neighbor. This is extremely tacky at this level of competition and should be avoided at all costs. Perhaps it's justifiable if one's boat is damaged and blame needs to be established, but on the whole, tossing a red flag is the height of bad taste in something as relatively inconsequential as a beer canner. Besides proving that you're unclear on the concept of beer can racing, it screws up everybody's evening, including yours. Don't do it – it's bad karma. - See more at: http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2016/05/03/ten-commandments-beercan-racing-2/#sthash.6XxRsrrX.dpuf
Fortunately, as far as beer can races are concerned, I have never violated this commandment
III) Thou shalt not run out of beer. Beer (a.k.a., brewskis, chill pills, thought cylinders) is the beverage that lends its name to 'beer can' racing; obviously, you don't want to run out of the frothy nectar. Of course, you can drink whatever you want out there, but there's a reason these things aren't called milk bottle races, Coca-Cola can races, hot chocolate races or something else. Just why beer is so closely associated with this kind of racing escapes us at the moment, but it's a tradition we're happy to go along with. - See more at: http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2016/05/03/ten-commandments-beercan-racing-2/#sthash.6XxRsrrX.dpuf
Please accept my most sincere apologies for privies posts.