GBCA Discussion Forum

No that's not what I am thinking.  I was asking about the algorithm, (that's like a tiny app) that actually computes the "new" PHRF numbers based on how a boat finished.

Quote from: STuma on January 23, 2017, 05:06:44 PM
I think to clarify Bee's question (please correct me if I misunderstood), it seems that you want to implement the Club's adjustable rating to all participants... correct? That is what I understood, and I think Bee is asking...

He is one of many that is probably not familiar with the idea... So Bee, when boats finish in the top of the pack; 1st, 2nd, etc, their rating will go down a factor and the boats in the bottom of the pack will have their rating raised. Essentially, it rates each boat on their performance, not the boat design. The PHRFGB ratings are only used as a base number. There has been much conversation on the factors at each end of the spectrum.

Quote from: Bee on January 21, 2017, 07:44:18 PM
You may have posted this previously,  but how do you "correct" PHRF for boats above or below the corrected time?

Let me rephrase.  Given that the correction is built in, all boats should finish at the same time.
The corrected time for every boat should be constant.  What  method you use to do come up
with a correction factor for each boats PHRF?

I agree completely, but then I only feel that way because I understand how they come up with the numbers.

You may have posted this previously,  but how do you "correct" PHRF for boats above or below the corrected time?

Let me rephrase.  Given that the correction is built in, all boats should finish at the same time.
The corrected time for every boat should be constant.  What  method you use to do come up
with a correction factor for each boats PHRF?

Yes I know the understood size of the max kite for a 109 is 121 m2, but it is also possible to make a similar size kite for a 105.
As I said in my earlier post, the only place I know of that flies a super jumbo is San Diego. I have never had one but except for
the potential to break the mast, it is possible to fly a super jumbo (from the mast head if desired) on Stinger.

My code 0 satisfies the criteria you list below.  That is why I did not take an ORC hit for it.  All of the numbers for
every sail I currently use are listed on my ORC cert.  I was the only 105 that registered her jumbo, but I never
used it.  Had I been able to the results in the HMR might have been different. BTW, there were 3
105's in the top five and one won the Bacardi Cup, one was 3rd and Stinger was 5th.  I suspect that if John had not
had a problem John Bell's 105 would also have been in the top 5.

When Brian Uffelmann owned Vici, he had Pedro cut his code 0 down.  Ostensibly because he thought
the kite would generate so much power it would break his sprit. I thought it was because he wanted to
run it like a genoa on steroids but he is no longer here to defend himself, and as I recall he never used it
like that.  Barnett had to add a panel to it to make it into an ORC spinnaker.

The J105 class rules for spins are as follows:

Quote
6.6.1 The spinnaker shall be manufactured from woven ply consisting of nylon. The ply weight of the
body of the sail shall be not less than 44 g/m2.
6.6.2 The area of the sail ("SA") shall not exceed 89 m2 based on the following formula:
SA = [(luff length + leech length) * .25 * foot length] + [(half width – .5 * foot length) * (leech length + luff length)] ÷ 3 where luff length shall not be greater than 15,100 mm nor less than 13,600 mm, leech length shall not be greater than 12,140 mm and half width shall not be less than .65 * foot length.
6.6.3 Adjustable leech, luff and foot lines shall be fitted.

There are similar restrictions on mainsails and jibs.  The J105 class uses a tag system on all class sails.
Sailmakers are responsible for the truthfulness of those tags, but almost every J105 class event has
some form of measurement  requirement. 

Its worth noting that my code zero is not made out of nylon so it cannot be used as a J105 class spinnaker.

Not sure if I can be of any help with regard to any of this, but if you wanna talk, that can be arranged. I am
a firm believer in the ORC scheme, but I don't recall having to do much more then provide my sail measurements.

From my perspective, I have no problem with measuring sails prior to any given regatta.  I do realize
that cheating is possible and it would be nice to find a way to avoid that but I would rather believe
in the integrity of the fella I am sailing against.  Cheaters will eventually be caught.

Quote from: STuma on January 18, 2017, 10:41:01 AM

the understood square footage for the 109 is 121 sq. meters.

For the Code 0s, I have my suspicion of some sails not fitting the rule. I grew up designing, building, and testing screachers for multihulls... I know exactly what the difference is and the benefit of a screacher over a true code 0. I think some people are mistaken that a Code 0 on a Volvo boat is the same as a Code 0 PHRF allows. The girth requirement is very specific:
'10.18 Asymmetric Spinnakers.
To be classified as an asymmetric spinnaker a sail must meet the following criteria:
10.18.1 The luff shall be at least 5 percent longer than the leech (see 10.21).
10.18.2 The mid girth (see 10.23) shall not be less than 75 percent of the foot length (see 10.22). ' via 2017 ORR Rulebook.

I really do not care whether or not races or thrown out.  I no longer care whether or not I even place in any of the races. At my age I understand that in a few more years no one is going to care or even remember that Bee Bednar raced. So, I have decide that for here on out,  the number one goal of any race I run is to maximize fun.

I do agree that everyone should follow the RRS's and when one violates any rule he should be called out. When it was called to my attention that I finished one of last year's Rum Races after the deadline, I withdrew. I am aware of at least one other boat, helmed by someone I consider a prince of a guy,  withdrew when it was clear that he had also violated a rule. Since I am also aware of several rule violations by boats that did not withdraw, I can understand the concern, but I am going to consider Icicles and Rum Races as that.  They are fun and that is what I am after.

On the other hand, I do care when someone suggests that someone's spinnaker, jumbo or code 0, is illegal.  I do care when I hear that PHRFGB is going to investigate J105's and J109's for the use of illegal sails.  I will need some pretty strong evidence to conclude that any current J105 or J109 is sailing with any kind of illegal sail. Their sails are made by local and national lofts and they all know what the limits are. Why focus only on J105's and J109's?  I suspect I know but I won't tell.

I was surprised when told that  PHRFGB was going to require that J105's use chutes no larger then 110 sq mt.  This is what J/Boats described as the largest a US J105 should fly. It is possible to make one larger then that but I suspect that, except for very light air, it would not be much help. Euro 105's have a different mast and can fly a much larger one off the masthead. Most US J105 mast's could not handle the extra force. According to Butch Boos (C&C Sailmakers) the original measurements of my jumbo comes in at 109.9 sq. mt.  I had him remeasure for my ORC certificate.  ORC says its 111 sq. mt.  Butch says that is due to stretch and is .9% larger then 110.  Does this mean I will have to take a 3 sec/mile hit?  According to PHRF regs, the sail has to be 2% larger in order to get a 3 sec hit.  ORC says my code 0 is actually a small kite.  What does PHRFGB think?  Is it going to be illegal? I really would like to know.

Quote from: STuma on January 17, 2017, 02:52:03 PM
I do agree with keeping the spirit of the event, but which spirit?

Do we abide by the RRS? Do we fly sails larger than we are rated for? Do we use illegal "Code 0's"? Do we start early? All because it is a casual event? Or do we designate rules and keep ourselves, and others, within them? Where do we draw the line? Can we disregard the fact that starboard tack has rights because it might be inconvenient, or someone forgot?

Unfortunately for you, you are tied with me. 

Yes, Greg,  I know, but one must remember to do that. I just never think of it.

Sorry.  It worked when I posted it.  I think SOS-TEX is no longer in business, but GBCA runs the conundrum every year.  This year it is scheduled for April 22. This regatta is run under SOS rules (I believe) and I think the by-laws provide the sailing rules for entering.  Most of the entrants run double handed but I think singled handed is also available.  Charles Broaddus won it last year single handing his C22.  Charles??

Quote from: 01parrothead01 on January 11, 2017, 06:50:33 PM
Wattsup - did you ever get any official info on SOS-TEX?  I recently joined GBCA specifically w/ SOS-TEX in mind.  Like you, I have only found the by-laws.  I sent an email to the general GBCA mailbox, but no response so far.

Bee - I tried the link you posted, but it's not working for me.

Does anyone have current information?

I'm hoping the group is still active because we really want to try to make all of the races for the annual series.

Quote from: ShakenNotStirred on January 11, 2017, 05:23:02 PM
As you pass or get passed by Stinger, thank Bee for providing the food for the after-party this week.   

Also if you sail by them before the start, remind him to turn on RaceQs!

Oh thank you my son.

I think I will avoid passing anyone on Saturday, but please yell at me about turning on raceQS whenever you can.

Yes.  All nice videos.  Will try to remember to attache my GoPro's to see if I can something as good. 

Hopefully I will also remember to start RaceQS.

I had some really strange readings from my depth meter.  I saw things like 36 feet where the true depth should have been ~10.  Coming out on the left side of the channel I also saw something on the order of 6' but never bumped (Stinger draughts 6.5).  Not sure what was going on with my depth meter but it calmed down after that.  Thankfully Concussion rounded inside of me at H so I was not anywhere near that mark.

Thanks for the input.

Quote from: Terry Young on January 09, 2017, 08:16:28 AM
Just a note - FireWater's keel bumped(dept reading was 10ft keel is about 6',6") on something just before the first mark("H"rig) I believe Shawn did a GPS on it for more info. Also saw what looked like part of a telephone post sticking about a foot out of the water near the ship channel( maybe floating around) heading for the range mark, appears to be a lot junk in the water best to keep a watch out. Other than these few things it was a great day to be sailing, and a lots of fun, and a perfect start for the Icicle races and I love the new GBCA calendar with the great photos, but have to say, in my opinion month of Aug photo the best :-)  GO FireWater !

I know that someone from Mitchigan will have no problem with the temperatures.  I am sure that guys like
you used to sit on the beach in speedos. HEEHEE.

Quote from: aj on January 06, 2017, 06:09:09 PM
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?w0=t&w1=td&w2=wc&w3=sfcwind&w3u=0&w4=sky&w5=pop&w6=rh&w7=rain&w8=thunder&w13u=0&w15u=1&w16u=1&AheadHour=0&Submit=Submit&FcstType=graphical&textField1=29.57&textField2=-95.03&site=all&unit=0&dd=0&bw=0

We need a way to like comments so


LIKE!!!!!

Quote from: barrylew on January 06, 2017, 06:14:33 PM
Come to the clubhouse after you get in. We will have a shrink there to sign paperwork certifying that you are nucking futs.

Its called freezing your butt off. 

Wear warm clothes.

I remember during one of the offshore races, maybe Heald, Bill, Kevin, and I were sailing with a couple young Tx A&M sailors.  Sometime during the early morning hours, Bill and I were the only folks on deck.  All the youngsters were down below snoring like babies.  Ok, maybe not babies, but you get the point.  Old Bill, and old Bee sailed the boat back to G11 and never looked back.

Wish I could still helm that long.

Since he was born in Alabama we used to love to tease Bill about how many white sheets he had.  He never missed a beat.

His best line was "The sun is over the yard arm somewhere" afterward he would have his breakfast beer.

Great guy.