ok, I'll be the one to bring this up...
We (the entire sailing community; all clubs) need to find out why the participation has been extremly low this year... It appears that there are on average <15 boats per event, including Vera Cruz... I understand they are smaller boats, but last week we had 54 boats on the lake... I have noticed the 22/24 participation in the bay has decreased as well...
Do people want:
- shorter courses
- longer courses
- fixed marks
- triangles
- less races
- different r/c staff
- help learning racing
- less serious class racing
There has to be something that triggers the interest... The reality is that with participation down, more and more regattas will be eliminated because the cost to run the race will out-weigh any benefit...
cheers...
Scott
I believe that a lot is simply the confluence of PIS (Post Ike Syndrom) and TP (The Depression). Money just doesn't seem to flow as easily into whatever is necessary to keep a decent race program going. Evidence is easy to come by: Just look at the area club memberships.
The second issue I see is that, although this is one of the most boat-dense regions, we don't seem to be able to get many high end regattas going - I mean, events that attract programs from elsewhere (There are, of course, a few notable exceptions, like the J-80 NA's last year). As a consequence, some of our better area sailors are looking around the country - or beyond - to find the big challenges. Otra Vez, Solaris, Mojo, Hot Ticket, to name a few.
The third issue is that too many of those who are still buying boats get a ride that has little to no chance for a one-design class. As a consequence, you end up with PHRF racing and, while that is perfectly fine, it is (among others) frequently up to the whim of the weather who wins. That does take a little away from the satisfaction of winning, and provides too much excuse for loosing. I'm sure I get a lot of 'input' for this statement, but I'm certainly a firm believer in OD racing to test your sailing skills and get the blood pumping. Check out the current Annapolis NOOD regatta entrants - makes me green with envy! So, if you want to race, get a J-22, 24, 80, 105, 109, Viper 640, Sovereil 27 (?), Ensign, I'm sure I'm missing a few, here, but the message is that there's something for almost everyone. All these classes have the makings of a OD start. Or go crew on one. It's a pain to sail a 109 by yourself (I'm going to try this summer, though....)!
Lastly, there are a few bright spots: sign-up for the Shoe Regatta is strong (I guess, everybody needs new shoes....).The Vipers are coming for this event and they will organize real time tracking, to be played live at the LYC club house or on any interested computer. That's an exciting new concept! Also: We will organize a Test Drive/Demo Day at LYC, most likely on 5/22. Here's our chance to attract fresh blood into the racing ranks. I know from my own experience that, once you've raced, there's no going back. Details will be out shortly, but plant to get involved, and make sure to tell everybody!
I could not agree with you more Al. I concluded long ago that Ike was a significant depressant to bay racing. Not much we can do about that. Just has to work itself out.
I never understand why one would buy a PHRF boat with no chance of forming a class. Some of this has to do with the great difference between modern and older designs. Some has to do with the need for funiture. I do have trouble understanding the need for furniture, but can go with that so long as the boat also has a reasonably chance of forming a class. Its difficult to understand why the 109's and now the J015's have so much trouble with this but at least classes form somewhat frequently. I think the 36.7's would also be a good design, but there appears to be only one boat here that races.
Just to be fair. boats with keel depths beyond that of the J109 are going to have trouble racing on Galveston Bay. I would love to have a J111 but with a keel depth of 7' 2.5" I just cringe at the number of times we would create a new trench in the mud.
As to why we do not have more nationally recognized regattas like the J80 and J24 national events, there are at least two reasons for this.
First there just aren't enough racing sailors to make this happen. Remember, the NOOD left us. They left due to lack of OD participation. If we had put 20 J22's, 20 J24's, 20 j80's, 10 J105's, 10 J109's along with 8-10 Level 70's, 50 Vipers, and 30 Ensigns every regatta they never would have left. We didn't, and we are not likely to.
Second, the Bay is just not your lovely clear water area. Maybe if we raced out of Galveston, in the clear water of the Gulf, it might be different. Some serious GP42's, TP52's, would give some serious competition to J145's and other such expensive toys. That will not happen in a Bay with an average depth of 8 feet.
I wish I had an answer for all this lack of participation, but I don't. When you can buy a cigarette boat with 1000 HP and probably find a couple of bikini's to go along with it, racing a sail boat just might be below the radar.
Like Jonesy and I figured out long ago, big crew-intensive boats are passe. The only boats bigger than 25 feet getting lots of crew are the Melges 32, were every rock star piles onboard. Your less sexy ones, like the J/105 would have to pony up $$$ to buy crew and compete...question is "against who?". Facing the facts, you just have to conclude sailing's shrinking, big time, and the only way to keep it going is to shrink with it. Hence the rise of the Vipers. Cheap, 21' boat that needs only 3 crew.
I cherish my memories and (few) trophies from the 80s and 90s when I owned a Santana 30/30 GP, could easily find 8-10 talented crew and sail for days on end in the Gulf. Those days, like my youth are over. Between my teen's (endless) soccer games, spouse's career, and extensive travel, once a month Viper racing is mighty appealing. That's just where we're at here in 2010.
What the bay, and the sport needs is more guys like guys like you and Bee - sparkplugs we call them.
Kudo's to you Al for taking the lead on this Test Sail Day, while it may not result in new boats on the bay (immediatly) i'm willing to bet you'll develope a nice big pool of crew that will make it easier to fill out the big boats. Mr. Jboats SW had a good idea about having a document to hand out - something that gives folks information on the local racing scene and how to get involved.
This is a great topic, and something that has troubled me since moving back to the area 2 years ago. It is a shame to see most competitive racing on the bay go by the wayside due to IKE and the economy. In my opinion, as discussed previously, is to shift our mode of thinking with the economy and focus on expanding the small one design fleets locally (Viper, Melges 24, J 22, J24, J80, Etchells). This is what will attract talented boats/crews from outside the region to race in our area. Larger local one design fleets will also increase our chances of hosting National level regattas such as the J80 NA's last year. Charleston is doing a great job of setting the bar, and I think we can learn something from the expansion of their Race Week in less than a 5 year span especially during the downfall of the economy. We may not be able to get the transient boats up and down the East Coast like they have, but what about Austin/Dallas/Ft. Worth/New Orleans?? I would think with the Melges 24 Worlds in Corpus next year this would spark some local interest, but it doesn't seem to as of yet. Most if not all the boats from TX doing the warm up regatta next weekend in Corpus are from Dallas. We need more guys like Jeff Jones who are enthusiastic about their boats and will go the extra mile to get more potential owners interested. You can see by the entry list for the Shoe Regatta that his efforts are paying off.
Just my .02 cents and I know I don't have much of a leg to stand on since I haven't done much local racing. The fact is I'd rather spend my limited amount of sailing time traveling to do the bigger events that this area lacks.
I know we have many folks from Dallas/Ft. Worth/Corpus Christi that follow our discussion forum. Would any of you care to chime in on the status of racing in your neck of the woods? Is there anything that you folks have tried to stem the loss of participation that seems to be working?
This is the same chatter that take up several threads on other more nationally-read webpages. Galveston Bay is not the only area experiencing this trend.
Sorry AYC folks - I meant to include Austin as well!
A 3030 GP!. Looking at the picture of my old one on the wall brings back some nice memories but the need for 8 crew is not one of them.
I always loved the description of why Shock called the boat a 3030. It takes 30 crew to hold her down in 30 knots of breeze.
I am a J24 circuit racer and used to live in Kemah. I moved to the DFW area 4 years ago. I was very involved in the Wednesday night races and GBCA while I was there. I have found coming up north that only the FWBC gives me the opportunities for racing like there was down in Galveston Bay.
We have seen the J24s decline in the circuit, and that had to do partly with the economy, boats being sold and possibly lack of interest to travel. While there are several new J24 boat owners, it has been very difficult to convince these folks to race locally as well as on the circuit, mainly due to inexperience.
I have made it a goal to race in one regatta at all of the clubs where a circuit boat is a member (AYC, FWBC, GBCA, CCYC, DCYC, and even Oklahoma Boat Club). I have encouraged others to consider doing a non-circuit regatta outside of their club.
One of the regattas I planned was the Shoe Regatta. But there are no J24s signed up despite the large amount of J24s in the area.
I don't really have an answer to why the J24s are not participating as much as they had in the past, but I for one would travel to Galveston Bay for regattas if the J24s would come out and race.
Back in the day (10 - 15 years ago) i remember a good number of boats that traveled, not any more. One thing that might be a contributing factor to the decline in racing is - same venue, same faces on the course and party.
The viper fleet has decided against the stand-alone type stops like the 22's and 24's do. Instead we think the effort is better served by piggy-backing our main one-design events like the shoe, Annual at the FWBC and Gov. cup in Austin. In our opinion (think i can speak for the fleet) we rather enjoy being a piece of a 100-boat regatta rather then going it alone.. that's something i wish the 22's and 24's should consider. Sure, major regatta's like the NA's etc. should be stand-alone events but how much fun can it be to do a 10-boat J22 or J24 regatta?
It would be cool if the fleets and yacht clubs could focus on cooperativly building 5 or 6 regattas in Texas - rather than everyone just doing their own thing and spreading the sport thin. There NO reason why Texas Race Week shouldn't be a 100-boat regatta.. we've done that two years in a row and i already had 5 or our 14 crew confirm they would be invited back for the 2010 event. (i'd like to think it was my personality but you absolutly cant beat the venue or party)! There is at least one FT10 and 1D35 + a handfull of H33's around the state that should make it down... but nobody knows about it!!!!
I'm tend to be a bit of an idealist - but wouldnt it be cool if we had a "summit" involving all the major yacht clubs in Texas? GBCA, LYC, HYC, AYC, FWBC, Rush Creek, Lakewood - just to name a few. Get together and develope a calender of high-quality events that dont conflict, and work together to get members to travel to each others regattas.
J24srock - you should go ahead and register. You might find that there are three or four other J24 sailors out there who are in the same position. They dont see anyone registered so NOBODY ever registers.
Jonsey, I agree with you on teaming up circuit stops with large regattas. The J24s this year participated at the Elissa Regatta and last year the Houston NOOD. While this is a new concept for us, it seems to be very successful and also helps alleviate burn-out of those same folks having to run a circuit stop year-after-year.
The idea of having yacht club summit is a great one. I hoped to race in the Sunfish Circuit this year, but there is only one race that does not conflict with my J24 schedule. I am a member of DCYC and I am happy to be a contact with my club. I will do whatever it takes to help keep OD sailing alive, whether it be local or circuit.
Tonja
This has been a big topic on Galveston Bay for the past couple of years. I think we miss a lot of the small boat participation on the bay because of Wed. night races. The smaller boats get there serious racing in on Wed. nights every week of the summer. I understand that a lot of the crew from Wed nights race on the weekend but there is still quite a few that only race on Wed.
When the Wed. night races used to be a reach fest and we started at the Turtle Club the turnout on the bay was higher by the small boats. Thats also when Wed. nights was a spectator sport and the Turtle Club would heel at about 10 degrees with all the people watching the races!!!!
Don't blame the midweek event. In Corpus its the ONLY one worth coming to most the time. Last night we had a competitive 20 boats all in one class pursuit race. This weekend we will struggle to get 5 on the line for the same thing.
It's time to consolidate. We need one great event annually at each club: CC Race Week, HYC Race Week, FWBC Old Man & Sea, LCYC Wurstfest, etc. Combine all the one design fleets into class starts and consolidate the PHRF boats into rating bands (+-12 secs/mile) and get more competition in similar fleets at the same time. Would reduce host club costs by bringing more participants and their $$$ to each event.
We are seeing the same thing in our industry (geospatial). Too many organizations and conferences chasing too few members and attendees. We are reaching rapid consensus its time to play together and share customers and costs to everyone's benefit.
Same to be said about our struggling sport, sailing.
I nominate Jonsey our first Texas Sailing Federation Supreme Leader! Second? All in favor? AYE! AYE!
One of the biggest motivations for accepting the responsibility of the Wednesday Night Races (1995), was to improve the quality of yacht racing on the lake and the bay.
At that time, we were in the middle of a sharp, alarming decline in the number of boats on the bay...so alarming that there were many who were truly frightened by the prospect of yacht racing diminishing to almost nothing around here. The turning point for me came when, for a major regatta (and I can not remember which one), seventeen boats showed up to race...and it wasn't bad weather, bad marketing, or any other obstacle that caused the ridiculously low turnout. It became apparent, even obvious, that disinterest was the root cause... and for someone like myself who loves this sport, it was truly a time for action and effort.
In addition to declining bay participation, there was mass disregard for the rules in the lake races, exacerbated by reaching starts (which resulted in all the boats arriving at the first turning mark simultaneously), and crowds that cheered every time the crunch of fiberglass, or the angry rants of screaming skippers filled the air. The Wednesday Races had nicknames like 'Bumper Boats', or 'NASCAR on the Lake', and it has taken years, if not decades, to recover from that venue. To make matters worse, there were loud, boisterous, and basically unpleasant competitors who were accepted as role models by newbies, which resulted in the propagation of distasteful personal interactions. Occasionally, old behaviors from those days still reappear from skippers who were around at that time. They stick their bows into places where they should not go. They disregard the 'question mark' in the pit of their stomach associated with a high risk manuever just for the chance of passing one more competitor. Low probability moves are slow and detrimental, unworthy of the immediate adrenalin gratification one might receive in the attempt. Slow because they seldom work, they result in penalty turn obligations, and detrimental because they result in protests and sometimes, even hard feelings.
Creating an environment to allow yacht racing to flourish, to grow to its highest potential: competitively, emotionally, mentally, while enhancing sportsmanship and friendship between the competitors, is the job of the organizing authority. It requires constant effort in educating, thinking, talking, getting feedback, finding and keeping sponsors, and implementing all of it into a system that maintains balance and direction.
And yet, that is all the organizing authority can do....create an environment. It is the competitors that have to take the ball and run with it. They are the ones who determine at what level of potential our sport is to be played. They're the ones that have to read the rules, hone their skills, learn new tactics, bring others along, and participate the way they're supposed to. And when you reach the full potential of the sport, when it becomes one of move and counter-move between competitors, when it becomes a quiet dance between boats, competitors, and friends as they strive for the next mark, you start to realize just how marvelous and unique yacht racing really can be...
Then, everyone gets excited. Everyone gets 'bit' by the sport, and they start bringing their friends to turn them on to the experience, because they need a crew, or they just want to take a proactive role in growing the sport. That is, I believe, what needs to happen....
Are you concerned enough, and excited enough about yacht racing to grow the sport? If so, find a neighbor, a friend, a fellow employee, any acquaintence, and invite them to come along. Then, for goodness sake, please make sure their experience is a pleasant one...no yelling, plenty of smiles, laughter, and comfort...and bring them to the party so they can see the crowd and be introduced around.
If you make the experience an overwhelmingly good one, who wouldn't want to join?
Well, Kevin does have a point... I don't think the WNR are to blame, but why spend an entire weekend racing when one can get tight one-design (mainly) racing each week with 45-60 of your closest friends? look at the events that are getting the numbers, Wed. Night Races & Rum Races... We have yet to see the turnout this year, but I will suspect that the numbers will be much better than our weekend regattas... We are seeing the same patterns that were around in the mid 90's... Many people are having to complete errands or work on the weekends...
This is where is becomes tough.. I think we need to provide for the serious racers and the cruising boats that are just beginning... Have moveable marks for the racers (I say movable only because I think triangles should be included) and fixed marks for the cruising boats... These two types need to be seperated and hopefully have no interaction on the water; their attitudes are completly different... If a beginner comes out with family and a racer comes across and yells at them for a rule infrigement, they will be frustrated and guaranteed not to come out again... we have lost many new sailors because they are initmidated around other boats.. Being racers, we are used to coming within 2-6" of each other and being fine, many people don't have that type of boat handling skills... Something we all need to keep in mind when we come across someone that may not "know what is going on"... Give them a break and talk to them later, off the water.. I also think the non-spinnaker classes need to have a A & B fleet... A beginner does not need to be racing against someone that has raced for 10-20 years... It will make two smaller classes at first, but I think the B fleet will grow because they will feel they have a chance of winning something...
I applaud the ones that are taking time from their racing program to help get other boats up to speed and work on their skills...
Either way, we need to expect less for trophies and event perks, increase entry fees or work on getting more boats out...
cheers....
Scott
Increase entry fees???
Just to clarify. I am not blaming Wed. nights for the lack of participation on the Bay. I think the Wed. nights are great and Buddy and Scott do an excellent job of running them. My point was that many boats and competitors sail on Wed. night to get there sailing fix and forgo the weekend regattas. I had a long discussion with Buddy last night on this topic and I think he is exactly right on his point and what he is trying to do.
Well it is a HUGE problem getting crew for weekends. I had NINE 9 rail riders on Wednesday here in Corpus. That's for a B-25. We took 7 and turned away 2. When I contacted everyone for a dumb-simple white sail's only 2 hour pursuit race on Sat, the message was either: a) going outta town or 2) gotta work. Good thing it can be done with two.
So you see the problem. Everyone's available for Wed. and no one's available for weekend. What's a boat owner to do???
This is a great thread and I don't think it reflects a problem unique to GB. Scott Tuma's response about splitting up the racers from the new participants is on the right track. Our sport has been distilled down to the hard core sailors. Others have left (Or chose not to participate) because of the economy, time constraints, hurricane hangover, etc. Our sport requires a large commitment of time and money-even to run a small boat program as compared to playing golf. Our family obligations also compete for time as well-kids soccer, baseball, etc. So why do we do it? Like anything else in life you get out of it what you put into it. Sailing requires that you put a lot into it versus other alternatives-but you get a lot out of it! Those of us that know realize it's the greatest sport in the world.
We have to market the sport so others that have not yet had the epiphany can get to that point. May have to back up and have nothing more then organized rallies. Something to get the cruising sailors to untie to boat and get on the water. One club in Dallas offers the "One Day Regatta" Five races in a day. Maybe start promoting more family incentives to motivate the families to race together-to make the sport the highest priority for the family, removing other alternatives. We all know that no matter what the skill level when there's two boats on the water they are racing. We just have to pull more people into the racing aspect and as Scott states need to allow them a venue to grow their skill set and passion.
Kevin, your point is taken well... Buddy does an awesome job on organizing and running the Wed. night races (coming up on 16th year, I think)... If anyone has done R/C with him, they quickly realize the passion he has for providing a perfect event... Not to take away from the R/C work on the bay, I am just more exposed to WNR for now...
Someone has asked me about setting a 1/2 mile (or shorter) mark on the bay courses for the smaller boats... This could give the option of a shorter course for the smaller one-design fleets... We have done this in the past and it makes it tough to reset courses, but that comes down to a chase boat being on the ball with the wind; and how intense we want to get with courses...
I think we are getting to a point where the efforts of the race organizers may out-weigh the rewards, but we have to keep pushing through.. If we do, we can come out of this funk on top and the country will follow Texas' lead, again... :-)
An idea to consider; small one design fleets get short (< 1/2 mile) legs, larger boats may get a movable marks or fixed marks (depends on turnout) where the "Cruising Canvas" fleet get fixed marks...
Where I was leading at first is that many new comers are intimidated with tight courses and large group of boats... I think many get intimidated with the fleet on the Lake, and that is understandable... I feel we need to focus on getting some new boats out on the Rum Races; I'm going to be taking Bondi out with my kids... If anyone wants to come along, shoot me a message and come along...
I just want to reiterate one point Buddy made earlier. Every chance you can, bring friends, or people you know, out to do some sailing, any sailing; and from my point of view if they are female . . . way mo' better . . . .
I'd agree that the Wed Nite races can be sort of a mixed blessing with regard to bringing newbies into racing. If they're pretty much gung-ho on sailing already, or into other highly competitive sports, then the pre-start melee, the mark-roundings, and the inter-fleet downwind-upwind-crossings make for an exciting experience. If they're more of a cruiser-curious-relaxed approach, then starting them out with a fixed-marks or rum-race might be a better idea, and with that comes the potential for their first ride or few to be either howlers or drifters.
Argh. As always, you might need to make a long- or short-term call on whether to hoist the genoa, jib, spin, etc, and even when to fire up the motor and crack the rum bottle, etc.
If they want to sail and/or race again, then you made a good call ...
...
From a more personal viewpoint, though, racing small (sub-30ft) boats on the Galveston Bay can have a rather narrow split of, for lack of better words, what newbies might consider *fun* conditions. At 4-6 knots the ride is drearily slow, at 12-14 the chop kicks up enough to make the ride wet, but the cruisers dig the 8-10 and the type-A love the 18+... Depending on their expectations, 3-4 hrs of drifting or 1-2 hrs of flogging can make-or-break their enthusiasm for the next race ...
...
Maybe that parallels Scott's take on the range of attitudes and experience in racers and potential racers? The hard-core racers take the results in stride; missed shifts, wind & course foibles, etc. Newer folk might see crossing the line within shouting distance encouraging. Ii adds a lot to building the Wed-Nite fleets, that most of them berth near each other ...
...
I had a thought about this topic as I stood on my boat at HYc yesterday morning, gazing around at all the boats that never seem to leave their slips. And I wondered if this topic is better addressed a bit earlier up the sailing/boating activity food chain as it were...... Here's my point:
I have been on, in, or near the water my entire life. Been a licensed mariner for a very long time, and I feel pretty confident (most of the time, but not all the time) horsing our 36' sailboat around in and out of the slip and marina. But, is everyone out there that we are trying to encourage to get on the water that comfortable with the whole boat handling aspect of it all? I mean, lots of folks buy some nice boats, or rather, they buy the dream that a boat represents; but don't they then realize," Man, getting this thing in and outta here is a real pain. This is frightening! This is not as much fun as I thought it would be......I'd love to go out more except for this part of it..."
So to the question: Could we get more sailors on the water by actually helping them "get" on the water (by getting out of the slip)? Might an hour of intense entering/leaving the slip drills with an experienced person aboard to pilot them be a good start to getting them and keeping them on the water?
Just a thought.
good idea Chris... This was kind of where my question a while back was; what are the things that are keeping people from coming out? I have offered a service kind of like this... I would take people out on their boat and learn the systems they are using... Maybe the main issue is docking and basic handling skills... I think we need to evaluate all ideas and keep trying new ideas... The entire sport is suffering this time.. it is up to us to carry it along for when it comes back, there is sailboat racing to do...
cheers...
Scott