Some interesting Kidd Pictures
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iJ-JOljP70
Looks close. Did it cost you a point?
Nope. Beat Uzi by a hair. Kidd's sprit just barely missed us.
Here is what the comments say in YouTube:
Quote from: Bee on November 17, 2013, 02:22:11 PM
This is why you don't ever want to ride on The Capt. Kidd. Notice that Kidd is on port (with motor running) while the other two boats are on starboard. Luckily no accident but very poor judgement on the part of The Kidd.
In the beginning it looks like the J105s and the Kidd are all on port, with the Kidd to leeward. Then the 105s jibe to starboard. Infinity passes astern of the Kidd, while Stinger attempts to cross ahead.
Bonehead move on Stinger, in my humble opinion.
Quote from: ShakenNotStirred on November 19, 2013, 10:31:23 AM
Here is what the comments say in YouTube:
Quote from: Bee on November 17, 2013, 02:22:11 PM
This is why you don't ever want to ride on The Capt. Kidd. Notice that Kidd is on port (with motor running) while the other two boats are on starboard. Luckily no accident but very poor judgement on the part of The Kidd.
In the beginning it looks like the J105s and the Kidd are all on port, with the Kidd to leeward. Then the 105s jibe to starboard. Infinity passes astern of the Kidd, while Stinger attempts to cross ahead.
Bonehead move on Stinger, in my humble opinion.
You need to look at the first frame. Both us and Infinity were on starboard for at least five minutes dueling it out. We are in the middle of gybing to port to avoid Kidd when we realized he was not maneuvering to avoid us. The pictures were taken from the committee boat, on which the PRO and the photographer saw that we were on starboard at the beginning of the incident. We did a bunch of shuckin' and gybin' trying to avoid Kidd, who in several of the last photos, you can see he has it in full reverse. Missed us by five feet or less. Pretty good maneuvering on Stinger's part, in my not so humble opinion.
Uzi and I were both coming in on starboard (in the 3 boat circle) with Kidd in the middle of the finish line about 20 feet off. I was going for the pin, Uzi for the boat. It is true that I could have taken Uzi up to the hubs of hell but in so doing I would have also not allowed him to finish. There simple was not enough room between Kidd and the RC boat to allow that. I figured I could gybe to port and head up high enough (which I did) to give Kidd the opportunity to turn away, but he never did. He did finally avoid us at the very last minute but only by putting his already running engine in reverse. BTW Uzi was always on starboard. He never gybed. I was and still am under the distinct impression that starboard trumps port with a running engine every time. I guess you know better Walter.
This is copied straight from the Coast Guard Rules: Keep in mind that Kidd had his motor running, which makes him a power vessel.
Rule 18 - Responsibilities Between Vessels Return to the top of the page
Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;
(iv) a sailing vessel.
(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.
(c) A vessel engaged in fishing when underway shall, so far as possible, keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver.
[(d) (i) Any vessel other than a vessel not under command or a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft, exhibiting the signals in Rule 28.]
[(ii) A vessel constrained by her draft shall navigate with particular caution having full regard to her special condition.]
Sure looks like you were on port to begin with (see IMG_1485)...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacyphotos/sets/72157636291424776/page19/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacyphotos/sets/72157636291424776/page19/)
and from the pictures it doesn't look obvious that Capt Kidd was being propelled by machinery. If she were, then of course she was the burdened vessel and you were obligated to hold course and speed.
But all I see is the photos.
Looks like Stinger got schooled by Kidd and Uzi:-)
Reminds me of another licenced captain or is it the same one on a different boat? Couple of years ago going up the chanel under sail and a powerboat tried to put an anchor in my ear...yelling rule 19 on a wednesday night.
What do they teach in that class? ???
Judging by the pics I would have to side with Walter here. You are seriously smoking something if you think you can gybe onto starboard that close and expect him to slam his helm over just because you now have right of way. There comes a point where common sense should be exercised. By all accounts, motor on or off, in this situation the Kidd is stand on vessel. Now what he was doing there is another story!
Quote from: ShakenNotStirred on November 19, 2013, 03:53:58 PM
Sure looks like you were on port to begin with (see IMG_1485)...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacyphotos/sets/72157636291424776/page19/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacyphotos/sets/72157636291424776/page19/)
and from the pictures it doesn't look obvious that Capt Kidd was being propelled by machinery. If she were, then of course she was the burdened vessel and you were obligated to hold course and speed.
But all I see is the photos.
1484, 1485, and 1498 - Stinger on port. 1499 stinger crash gybing on to starboard within a couple lengths of Kidd. Did anyone holler "Rammiing Speed!!!". Kidd appears to be propelled by sail (all sails full, drawing and trimmed for the apparent wind) rather than power - though they may have had their moter running, it appears to not be engaged since no prop wash is evident. Should Kidd have been on the finish line? Stupid idea, but not breaking any rules. Three boat length circle and finish line really don't matter to Kidd and had no real bearing on his obligations (or lack thereof).
Bet it was exciting for all to watch!
Yeah, I have to agree with the Peanut Gallery based on the limited info provided by the pictures. It looks pretty light-air and assuming Captain Kidd does not have it's motor in gear, I can't imagine how long it would take for that tub to alter course significantly in what looks like no more than 8 knots of wind (which is probably being generous, 6 may be more like it). I mean, you would probably lose a protest on that one against another competitor for not giving ample opportunity to keep clear. I would think it prudent to provide a boat not racing with even greater opportunity, especially something as heavy and under canvassed as that thing.
As an aside I would suggest that it is impolite at best to post highly selective pics (why not post the pics of you in mid-gybe to at least offer the proper context?) of an incident that both boats are probably at fault for with the intention of damaging a man's lively-hood. But that's just me.
As you said, the view from the peanut gallery. You had to have been there the whole time, which I was. The pictures don't start soon enough. We crashed gybed several times trying to figure out what he was doing. But as I said, you had to have been there. Consult with Uzi for his opinion since we were with him at the time.
Any way you look it I come to one conclusion? an Ullman runner and going wing on wing for a minute would have eliminated this problem al otegther and put you even further ahead ;)
That looked pretty close, if Kidd was under motor(which she always is) unless restricted by depth(was not) then Kidd was clearly in the wrong. Bee was first on a port tact at the first frame, but tact to starboard well clear distance it "appears" of Kidd( which does not matter, Kidd was under motor), just a note as well, Kidd has been seeing us race out there for years and should no better than being so close to the pin mark, but he wanted to give his paying customers a close up! It might be good to contact him and get his side as well, and ask him if he would mind keeping a little distance. A boating accident would be bad for his business, as well as the boat he hit, rite or wrong. In the end we all need to play nice with the other boater, even if we no the boating rules and they do not, you maybe rite but " you lose" time in court, and in boat repairs time, and then good luck collecting damage money. I was hit many years back had to take it to court and won, it took me almost two years to collect. Just my thoughts, Terry.