GBCA Discussion Forum

The 3 boat one design class (J109) this weekend is exactly what I've been talking about in regards to class splits.  There could be a great class A with the 122, c&c115 and 3 J109s.  Then have the rest of the boats Melges 24, J-80, j-92s, J-70 and Pingo in Class B.  I would also add in the Ben 25 (which is another reason not to split the "factory vs non factory sprits".  When was the last time you saw 8 boats in a under 30' class with all relatively similiar design on GB? 

Where will the class split be if the 109s have there own class?  It's not fair racing for either end of the spectrum in the PHRF group.  I never recall sitting in a PHRF committee meeting and someone on the board ask "how well will a J-122 sail against a J-80"?   PHRF works with similiar boats of similiar size. 

Just my thoughts! 

Look at buying a new one from Catalina and be done with it.  They have exact replacements. 

If the class min number of boats was raised to 5 the OD issue would be a non factor for the most part.  Another suggestion would be for two regattas a year dedicate them as PHRF champ races and for those two regattas everyone races PHRF with OD sub classes.  Most people have agreed that 3-4 boat OD classes are not fun or competitive for the most part. 

If there is a cruising type boat that rates close to a J109 and they decide to install a prod then PHRF should be able to rate the boats to race against each other.   That's what the whole premis of PHRF is about.  I'm not talking about a 25+ sec/mile spread.   PHRF should be able to rate a Hunter 40 with a prod vs a boat of similar speed such as C&C 37.  I assume that's why PHRF spent countless hours developing the parameters allowing sprits to be added.  If PHRF doesn't intend on rating aftermarket sprits vs traditional sprits or symmetrical boats then why have the parameters of the length of sprit and sail size??  The operating policies of PHRF state that they boat is assumed to be race ready, with race bottom, racing sails, etc.  If a boat doesn't havent this I believe that is why the cruising handicap was developed or the cruising spinnaker class (Dacron sails) was developed.   

What's gonna happen when the 1D35 shows up with an aftermarket sprit?  We form a 18th class and call it "PHRF Aftermarket Sprit Sport Boat" class??   The traditional spin boat that's been around for 40 years has no one to race against anymore.  If I were to race Psyched in a bay race I have no one to race against.  There is no PHRF spin anymore.  They have all been divided up into 3 boat one design classes, sprit classes, aftermarket sprits, etc. 

I agree with the earlier suggestion that any of theses classes shouldn't form unless they have a minimum of 5 boats AND the ther boats entered have a minimum of 5 boats to form a competitive class for them to race in.  When I was fleet captain and Commodore we always had the "at the discretion of the race committee" written in the NOR when mentioning how and what classes would be offered. 

I do think this is a great conversation for Galveston Bay.  I'd like to hear what some of the aftermarket sprit boats think?  Ben 44.7, 1D35, Sparcraft one ton, etc. 

Still not sure why we have factory and aftermarket sprit in separate classes?  For that matter why spit and non sprit are separated in w/l racing.  We have such a small pool of boats racing, to divide them up even further makes very small classes. 

We have a good PHRF committee, they should be able to rate a "aftermarket" sprit vs factory sprit and also a sym boat vs asymmetric boat on w/l. 

Very sad.  RIP Chris. 

I agree!  I've listed psyched for sale with J Boats SW. 

......maybe we just started the classified section Jeff!!!

RIP Charlie.  That's sad to hear.  He was always willing to help anyone out.  I worked with him on Malcolm Bremers Tripp 47 "Foxy" and also on the Skye 51 illusion.  Really nice guy.  Had no idea of all his accomplishments and service to our country.  Thanks Charlie!

Why does it matter if a sprit was added by the factory or by the owner?  Fact remains the same, it's a sprit boat.  The only difference in sprits is the length of the sprit.  PHRF should be fairly rating the boats so that all sprit boats, regardless the length and who installed them,  should be competitive with each other. 

I've always contended that there should be no separation between a sprit vs non sprit boat in PHRF windward/leeward racing.   Let them race in the same class.   Irc doesnt differentiate why should we.  Rum races on the other hand I think it's good with the reaching type courses that there are separate classes but I think there are far too many options available to entrants in weekend regattas. 

I like the idea of deleting the no luffing!!!!  That was put in back in the early 90s when we used to do rum races at night (which I think we still should!!!).

This is a Ben 39 1 ton.  Originally from here and called Notre Dame aka Tuff Enough Texas Style.  Very popular boat from the 80s around here.  It lived on the hoist in Lazy Bend.  I put a new rig in this boat almost 12 years ago.   Fast boat actually a low 60s rater or even high 50s. Very technical boat but it is fast.  69 would be a gimme rating on this boat. 

To clarify it isn't three Bacardi classes.  It is three separate Bacardi fleets.  Bacardi, Bacardi Oakheart and Bacardi Superior.  For some reason LYC doesn't want race boats (sport boats) racing in the racing fleet.  Go figure. 

I started some correspondence last week with Andrea and the HM committee regarding this exact issue.  I don't see why sport boats are kept from racing against race boats.  This is the only regatta in the country that does this.  Giving sport boats there own class totally makes sense, but the big trophy is the Bacardi Cup and that is for the racing fleet.  Sport boats should be able to compete for the racing trophy!!  If we had 20-25 sport boats racing that would be a different story. 

Don't read too much about what class boats are in right now on the website, Andrea mentioned in one of her emails that she hasn't checked to see if the boats that are currently listed in those classes actually belong there.  She is on vacation and is hoping to address this issue when she gets back. 

We are planning on taking the Melges 32 again if they allow us to race for the Bacardi Cup. 

As for the "sport boat definition", that was suppose to be deleted from the PHRFGB website years ago.  When I was on the PHRFGB committee we voted to do away with that definition, we weren't using it for anything and it was causing issues like this to pop up.  It was never deleted and therefore is being used.  I would imagine by that definition that a good portion of the boats that do the Trans Pac and also the Newport/Bermuda are considered "sport boats". 

I would be interested to hear any viewpoints from the "displacement" boats on the separate fleets for Harvest Moon.  If you go back and look at the results there is a pretty good spread between heavy/sport and regular displacement boats over the past few years.  The year we won on Mojo we were only a few minutes ahead of a Santana 35 and then a few J-122s right there as well.  Granted that was under ORC but I don't think the results would of changed a bunch under PHRF. 

We have lost another great person in the sailing world and to many a great all around person.  Kevin was part of the resurrection of the Veracruz Regatta when GBCA co hosted with LYC years ago.  He is also (I believe singlehandedly) responsible for the club handicap class (Maybe call it the "Box Rule"!!) and ran the computer for years to develop the rating system.  He is also a past commodore of the club.  No doubt that he spent countless hours volunteering for GBCA to help the club grow into what it is today.

My thoughts and prayers are with Kathy and Kevins family. 

Someone needs to come up with a good tribute that those of us can do Sat night during the rum race.  Any ideas??

We did not fly 2 spinnakers, the smaller blue and white sail is a blooper, not a spinnaker.  It is legal to fly along with a spinnaker.  It was actually too light last night for the blooper but I decided to fly it just for the heck of it.  Psyched is for sale if anyone wants it!!

Going back to the topic of this discussion, I dislike the earlier starting time.  Its brutally hot getting the boat ready to go.  Now your entire Saturday is devoted to racing rather than just late afternoon/evening.  The old "Sat night rum races" have turned into another day race that the only difference is the staggered starts.  That being said we will still be out there but I do wish we would start later.  Maybe designate one or two rum races with a later starting time so we can experience a little bit of the evening racing?

Kevin Hayes

On Psyched, rating 78, we started at 7:28 on Fridays and 6:28 on Saturdays in the 90s. Finishing at night was a blast!!  This is why we had the no luffing rule and the 2 boat length passing rule cause most of the racing happened at night.  Somewhere along the way "at night" was removed.  Now we need to remove this altogether and let the RRS work the way there suppose to.  I prefer the later starts personally.  Speaking of Psyched she will be out this Sat with blooper and all!!   Hope this year no one accuses us of cheating by flying two spins!!!