NOOD - Big Boats???

[Evan]

I agree with Mark about rating the boat not the sailor. I have won and lost against the L70s on 109s and have never thought there was a rating problem. When we have won, we sailed with few mistakes, and when we lost, there was probably yelling you could hear from downtown, but we certainly didn't blame it on the rating. Yes the boats sail differently downwind, but if asyms had the advantage there, why wouldnt the L70 guys be at their sailmaker having A kites made to run off the pole?...it can be done. Typically I thought it was us on the Asyms who were afraid of the Syms killing us on the downwind leg.

About the NOOD. This is a one-design race that brings in out of town boats and you guys are bickering about who to let in for a NON one-design class. Two of the L70 owners have J22s, and there are numerous other crew who have J/24s and the like. Why not ditch the L70 debate and go sail one-design like the regatta intends?

Just a fun idea for the future and the rating debate....we could have a fun regatta where all the Asym guys sail the Sym boats and vice versa. This would shed some light on the whether or not we (Asyos) could jibe a pole and if yall could muscle the huge kite around. This might shed some light on whether the boat or the sailors are being judged here. If nothing else it would probably provide for some good laughs  .

[Big John]

Finally, we have an idea. Off topic, but an idea.  How about we get the Wed nite pontoon boat out and use it to rotate crew between races at the NOOD? Or on some other regatta.  WOW.

As to the back and forth on J109's vs L70's, the issue is not whether badly sailed boats win or well sailed boats lose.  It is that well sailed 109's beat well sailed Syms in All conditions.

And by the way, has anyone, including the organizers, thought through the FACT that the level 70 class with 4 boats represents the same number of people at the party as 10 J22's and a lot fewer trophies.

But who is counting.

[STuma]

That was exactly my point... if a boat has a certain rating, how sails are hoisted and the other physical dimensions, are factored in... therefore, a boat with a chute launcher, gets penalitized for that convience... isn't that why carbon masts are deducted?

I like the idea... could even have it where they sail the same course; 3 tacks on the windward... take the tacktics out of it... basically do a "speed" run course... This would take a long time and lots of effort...  Great idea, just not very practical... With crews learning the A-boats more, they should progress through the rankings, but not the entire class should dominate the top of the class... Sorry, but there is not one group that is that good... There is something wrong with a rating when in PHRF fleet they are dominating the class, but in a different one-design, they struggle to get into top 1/3... In the one-designs, the top sailors (ones that have one nationals/worlds) get beat every so often (it does happen)... So, shouldn't the results in PHRF vary as well?  The Level 70 fleet used to have some close racing and everything came down to the last race, usually with 2-4 boats tied for a placement...

My main point is; can't we all get along?  I grew up with this type of segregation racing multi-hulls... I actually do laugh because the sport boats are now experiencing what the multi's have experienced for the last 30+ years... It does feel like the phrase "... we don't want your kind here..." 

can sport boats and traditional boats sail competitively together, no... the designs are too different... depending on the wind strength, everyone will perform differently... Like racing against the J30, when the wind blew over 18, your racing for second place... just the difference is greater now...  But, even with the traditional boats, there tends to be a performance difference with wind speed, so that cannot be an excuse...

I say, if the rating fits, sail it....

cheers...
Scott

[Funk]

Finally, we have an idea. Off topic, but an idea.  How about we get the Wed nite pontoon boat out and use it to rotate crew between races at the NOOD? Or on some other regatta.  WOW.

As to the back and forth on J109's vs L70's, the issue is not whether badly sailed boats win or well sailed boats lose.  It is that well sailed 109's beat well sailed Syms in All conditions.

And by the way, has anyone, including the organizers, thought through the FACT that the level 70 class with 4 boats represents the same number of people at the party as 10 J22's and a lot fewer trophies.



I guess the J-44 is an anomaly???

But who is counting.

[KevinBednar]

I'm curious why GBCA would want fewer entry fees and more people at the party? 

[Big John]

Kevin,
Of course, GBCA wants us all in single handed boats and too tired to come to the party. Given. 

Not so with NOOD and the Yacht clubs.  NOOD makes a lot of money off sales of shirts, etc at these events.  The yacht clubs make oodles off drinks and actually improve their cost ratios on the food they sell if more tickets are sold.  Overall, the economic result improves if more people show up.  Plus, the regatta's reputation builds if more people show up. 

Keep it up folks. This is good stuff.

There was mention of conditions influencing results in L70.  Everyone remembers when you could look at the wind speed and know who was going to be competing with Leading edge for the trophy.  Did the sailing skills on Heat Wave or Predator (RIP)  change on the basis of the wind? Are the sailing skills on LE that good? One wonders? But that is also off topic.

[Evan]

Kenai = Asyo's worst nightmare!

John, if you are for more people participating in the NOOD party (more crew on big boats vs small on 22s), then why would side with the 109s being left out? I would like to hear some of the 109 owners POVs on this issue...Al? Jim?...i see you lurking in here

[Evan]

Oops...sorry John, misread about you wanting them left out...this is just discussion.

[STuma]

Evan,

I don't think the issue is the 109's being left out... this hasn't been an issue because in the last few years, the 109's had enough for a class and they did not consider being in the L70 class... in the beginning of the class, when the rules were being discussed, the group decided on a SA/DISP ratio to have as a cut off... That had to be changed, because it excluded the J35...  I think the original intent of the class was good, narrow the qualifications to make the class one-design-ish... Not have boats too far on either side of the spectrum... But, times have changed...  It really doesn't matter to me what the rules are for L70, I just think that it does not make much sense to limit the entries when we are struggling for entries...  If we wanted to end this discussion real quick, change the rating parameters to 70-79 PHRF...  That shoots out the 109's automatically... Which brings the issue of the 10R...  Has anyone tried to get Mike out?  I am trying to get more boats out so we can increase the participation on the water... In regards to the party, we all know which club(s) cater to the party and have the regatta as a cover...  It would be really nice to have all three clubs work together (use each strength) to put on a stellar regatta... maybe the NOOD needs to be that way?  make it a Galveston Bay effort rather than HYC or LYC event...

Even with that being said, we need to get the kids out... We need to invite them on the big boats and have them involved... once they race Lasers and V15's for several years, where do they go?  Many of them do not have the opportunity to sail a big boat... They don't have to drive, have them crew even... They are our future... We have been lacking and it is showing...

cheers...
Scott

[Evan]

I definately agree that the most important thing is encouraging the most participation possible. Wasn't that the initial motivation for the L70 class in the first place?

There is a definate lack of youth sailors around my age (23) and I am not quite sure why but something needs to be done! Maybe I should just hastle my friends more...

[KathyR]

Kevin,
Of course, GBCA wants us all in single handed boats and too tired to come to the party. Given. 

Not so with NOOD and the Yacht clubs.  NOOD makes a lot of money off sales of shirts, etc at these events.  The yacht clubs make oodles off drinks and actually improve their cost ratios on the food they sell if more tickets are sold.  Overall, the economic result improves if more people show up.  Plus, the regatta's reputation builds if more people show up. 

Big John, have you ever volunteered to work one of GBCA regatta's and sell shirts, plan the food and booze intake and promote the race to get ALL the boats we possibly can to come and race AND have a successful party for all of our participants?  ... I am not involved in all this talk about L70's and who should be in what class or if you can play nice together...but when it comes to what GBCA offers after the races...now that's were you step into another arena of racing that I am experienced.  If a person hasn't volunteered to work our regatta's then how would they know what GBCA wants from their sailors at these post race parties?  I'm just curious...do you not think that GBCA would not want to see economic results improve in our club or the reputation of our regatta's continue to expand? I know I do.  I've seen single-handed sailors come in tired after the races, but they come in and enjoy themselves, take a breather and relax after a good race.  It is the sailors decision whether they want to come and enjoy GBCA libations and food for almost nothing in cost.

By the way I still have some TRW shirts for sale as well as the GBCA logo shirts and don't forget about our new order of GBCA tervis tumblers that will soon arrive!..........now did you honestly think I was going to let that opportunity slip by!   


Sorry guys...back to your regular discussion!   

[STuma]

KathyR,

I would suggest that you do your research before you jump on the "... you dont' do anything" band-wagon... I will have to say that John does his part in the community... For years I don't know, he has done race committee for the Wednesday Night Races (& your welcome to come out on the boat and help there); where he has assisted with course set up, boat check in and scoring... I know he has done it for more than 5 years, but I will use 5 as a round number: 6 series per year, 4 races per series: 24 races/year *5 years = 120 races... Who in this area can say they have helped with 120 races?  He is very aware of what goes into a regatta, he has done more for racing than we will know...  Doing race sommittee for the Wednesday Nights is an intergrated process, Buddy and his crew makes sure everything is as perfect as possible ( I am not as much)... I recommend every racer on Galveston Bay come out for 1 week and see what is involved and how to run a proper race... Galveston Bay has gotten a bad reputation (nation wide) about their races... This group is working on fixing that... With that, I will have to say that Dwight and his crew has been doing a spectacular job on changing that as well...   

back to the topic...

[ChrisK]

"Of course, GBCA wants us all in single handed boats and too tired to come to the party. Given."
Huh? I had to read that twice.
Can I pretend I never read that on the ForRum?
Sorry but I'm pushing the BS button on that one... ***BEEP***


"you don't do anything band-wagon"
What? where? What wagon? I didn't read that at all.
Where's my button?

We all know John consistantly does his part with Wed, and promoting L70 class. That effort is most appreciated.  As you may or may not know, Buddy a little shy to ask for help.  John's the man in that department.

But volunteering for RC on Wednesday Night races compared to doing everything (and I mean everything) involved with organizing multiple full blown 3 day out of town regattas are two different things...
Months of planning, securing sponsors, race committee, parties, merchandise, food, promotion, awards...all while staying in budget, keeping a real job, and clinging to some form of sanity.  
The effort is nothing short of monumental.

Kathy gets the job done, and can run circles around all of you guys.  
She's just one among several unsung heros of GBCA...we're quite lucky to have such talent


Now back to topic:
I'll make a general statement:  Try to get the boats out there and try to make a class.  If we don't, who's to say they won't move the event to say, Dallas or Austin?

[Christopher]

KathyR,

I would suggest that you do your research before you jump on the "... you dont' do anything" band-wagon... I will have to say that John does his part in the community... For years I don't know, he has done race committee for the Wednesday Night Races (& your welcome to come out on the boat and help there); where he has assisted with course set up, boat check in and scoring... I know he has done it for more than 5 years, but I will use 5 as a round number: 6 series per year, 4 races per series: 24 races/year *5 years = 120 races... Who in this area can say they have helped with 120 races?  He is very aware of what goes into a regatta, he has done more for racing than we will know...  Doing race sommittee for the Wednesday Nights is an intergrated process, Buddy and his crew makes sure everything is as perfect as possible ( I am not as much)... I recommend every racer on Galveston Bay come out for 1 week and see what is involved and how to run a proper race... Galveston Bay has gotten a bad reputation (nation wide) about their races... This group is working on fixing that... With that, I will have to say that Dwight and his crew has been doing a spectacular job on changing that as well...   

back to the topic...

Not mention John's involvment with LYC in putting on their big regattas, specifically Harvest Moon and others.  And then he comes out to race.

back to the topic...

[Christopher]

Or am I going to have to charter a J22 and race against Tom Sutton and Larry Blankenhagen anyway???

Level ? 70? How about no rules in this knife fight? 
Millennium Express
Leading Edge
Parrot Tales
Gold Rush
J109's
Out of area boats (Dallas? New Orleans, Corpus???)


Who is in and who is out?
John Butler

Well John, you and Tom are the only ones who have not yet signed up.  Larry and Marty are already in.  Looks like the Vipers and the Cat22 are the only ones putting together classes.  None of the other J's.

I know it's a few weeks out yet, but why is it everyone always waits until the last minute to register?  I would think there might be more of a draw, especally from the out-of-town boats to see a long list early, and think 'I gotta get into this fracas'; instead of seeing a short list and think, 'why bother'. 
My $0.02