PHRF Fleet Splits

[Bee]

I don't disagree with anything you say Kevin, but I suspect your suggestion of putting them all together will result in some, perhaps not so nice, discussion between the symmetric and asymmetric girls. One need look no further then the current sprit-non sprit split in the Rum Races.

I have heard a lot of  "discussion" implying that girls with sprits are more PHRF potent then spritless girls. Bottom line opinion is that they should not race in the same class. There are similar discussion relative to Melges, Vipers, J70's, Shaw 650's, when compared to bigger sprits like 105's, 109's, 80's, and such.  The smaller boats plane, the bigger ones don't.  Planing is a potent weapon and very difficult to handicap.

What we really need are more boats on the line. When that is the case the issue pretty much goes away.  I wish I new how to get more boats out but the future does not look good.

If it comes to the point where we only race PHRF again, I think I will pass.

[sailfastliveslow]

Well, getting more boats on the line (PHRF or 1D) was why I even started the thread.  Well managed PHRF values and close(ish) rating bands leads to (almost as good as) one design racing.  When the PHRF spread approach a minute or more a mile, it gets difficult for the little boys to keep up.  Couple recommendations:

1.  Consider using Time on Time (ToT), instead of Time on Distance (ToD).  ToT is generally recognized as superior in that it can take into account small boats getting stuck in dying breeze well after the biggies have finished, etc.

2.  Keep a single start for A & B fleets, just score them separately.  You get the illusion of bigger fleets with enough gold stars & blue ribbons to make us ALL fill better about spending our time & money to get out on the H2O.

Cordially,

Whinny Little PHRF Hacker

[CHull]

Bee,
As you know it's been quite a while since I visited.  So I have enjoyed seeing this discussion, but saddened by the reduction in the fleet entries, And I well remember the Santana 30 and you and Bondi Tram at the start line having this similar discussion.Bondi was brought from the Left Coast as a MORC Maxi from the 90's and then spent 4 months in the yard getting optimized for Galveston Bay.  Rating went from 105 (had that for 10 years nationally) to 93.  But that was probably due to a carbon fiber revolution that went on for the rudder, tiller, spin pole, sails, etc.  Eventually, went to 96.  But in conditions under 12 knots, it would horizon the A fleet on upwind legs.  And if under 5 knots, as some remember in a TORC, it would just walk away from the 44's and high end 38's (Always thought those kids from A&M should have been boat of the day for last 2 days, but that is another story). And wen locked in and balanced, you could just let go of the tiller in flat water let the boat sail itself. And what most never found out was that the boat (a 30' footer) drew 7' with a bulb on the keel and a 6' offset rudder. Damn thing drove like a semi though, lol.

And boat prep always was for the best running rigging, bottom prep (600 wet dry), and all carbon blocks.

Objective was, "if you are going to make the rating against the big boys, you better be ready to take advantage of every minute performance advantage.

For background the boat is a one-off Andrews 30 that was purpose built for upwind angle and speed and needed 12 -15 downwind for deep and by the lee angles to reduce distance against the A fleet speed based on length.  We would just sail by the lee and got a bit of a reputation for pole-less spin take-downs to work the inside at the mark and be on upwind earlier than the A guys. (you can do that with college sailors, so invite the Galveston sailors, they were always great to have on the boat).

Had our share of 1, 2, & 3's, and the best an all A&M at Galveston Team 1rst in an Ellisa Regatta (with a busted traveler), with me just following in a power boat taking pictures.  But something happened, due to the college sailors, and great group of friends, Andrew McInnis (of Banks Sails at the time), John Maudlin and son, and Scott Tuma, the sailing excellence on the course became paramount.  Not our overall position in the final results.  We became our biggest critics.

Many people wondered why the boats crew did not make the after race parties at the respective clubs.  Simple, Mrs. Tammy our boat manager and woman extraordinaire would have a dock party set up for us when we arrived and demanded a breakdown of the race.  And that is where the magic happened...... we just loved the experience of sailing together and sailing the suicide machine the best that we could.

Oh, and a tight race for best racing experience....John Maudlin getting 2 seconds on day one of the NOOD and his son, Nick, getting 3 firsts the next 2 days for our class win.   (We fired John.....lol).  And Nick and Dad at LYC, together, accepting the first place prize.  First time Nick had driven a keel boat, and first time with Dad in the back. First time Marla got to see husband and son on the podium together.

It's  tough to compete in the A class, "if it was easy everybody could do it".  And most of the time the conditions won't favor the smaller boats.  But somewhere in our 8 years racing together, we found something above the results......

And if I could turn back the clock...I would do it all over, just the same way.

Don't sweat the results.....there is something about racing a boat to it's potential that has its own value, and I a damn glad that, Doug, Bruce, Tammy, Chris, James, Peter, Dan, Scott, Andrew, John (the homeless duded on the dock), Nick, Marla, Greg, the whole Texas A&M at Galveston sailors, Christina and the women's regatta team members had the patience to put up with the bunch at the back in fantasy land.

Boat is just taking up space at the dock now...I am done...But if there is a group with a vision out there, that would put in the work, and would like to sail on the edge......I just might be willing to give her to you....

Clark Hull

[Bee]

Great post Clark.  As usual well thought out and spot on.  I remember sticking with you all the way back from one of the Offshore races.  Sorry, but I don't remember which.  Just you and that 30.  I was concerned that if something happened you just might need some assistance.

I particularly like the comment relative to boat prep.  Vic Forsyth pretty much taught me all I know about sailing.  One of his favorite comments went something like "you start loosing points at the dock."  Fundamentally boat prep, including sails, rigging, and just about everything else one can think of has to be a major focus.  Given 100 points for perfect prep, you really do start loosing points at the dock.  Top notch sails and a crew that just does what needs to be done when it needs to be done are also necessary.  Its really a team sport after all.   Maybe the most important thing and maybe the hardest is to avoid indecision during the race.  Good or bad, quick decisions are the way to go.  You can always recover when you recognize you mistake.

I read somewhere that a winning campaign for even the little boats (J70 and the like) can cost around 70K+/year.  That does not include the cost of the boat. It ain't easy being green.  If your ultimate goal is to be first every race (I admit having that kind of goal in the past) you are probably going to be a bit disappointed, but given enough green you can probably achieve something close.  I am pretty much past that now but I still like wining. Its always nice to come in first.  Nevertheless that pickle dish is not going to be around when your gone so its better to just go out and have some fun.

The more I think about it the more I realize that not many people want to blow the kind of green necessary to sail the boat at its rating.  I know I didn't when I owned the 3030.  However, sailing with great equipment is a joy.  I like my new sails and everything else. For me its the only way to go.

I don't understand Kevin Hayes belief that fleets should have at least  4 boats. Sailing a 105 against even just one other 105 (match racing) is a hell of a lot of fun.  Uzi and I do this in every Rum Race and we trade off winning all the time.  Its very exciting to come in within a few seconds of each other at the finish. It is certainly more fun when there are 4 or 5 or more out there but the excitement is still greatest when you are directly competing against just one other boat. The great thing about OD is that you have to learn how to sail the boat above its potential to beat the guy next to you and you have to be able to do that with just a few seconds of separation.

Beyond boat prep, sails, and other such things, sailboat racing is basically a head trip.  And that for me is fun.