ORC Rating System for Galveston Bay

[dc1sail]

Everyone who races in Galveston Bay has an interest in promoting fair ratings.  It is frustrating to race often knowing that the conditions that day favor one boat type over another and that your effort is probably not going to result in getting on the podium.  While PHRF is a great system due to its simplicity and low cost it is not perfect.  The system is empirical and set up to handle only one type of course and one wind condition.  Anytime those conditions are not met the PHRF ratings often do not reflect the performance of many boats.  The other approach is a science based system using a boat's measurements (weight, waterline, draft, rig, sail area, etc....) to develop a math model that predicts the boat's performance over the full range of wind strengths and wind angles.  Typically called Velocity Prediction Programs (VPP), these models allow a naval architect/ boat designer to try out many concepts and fine tune a design before it is built.  They also allow different speed ratings to be established for a given boat depending on wind strength, type of course, etc.....the rating of a typical boat will be different sailing windward / leeward's vs a point to point course.  Since a boat will have multiple ratings for different types of racing/ courses these measurement based rules allow the race committee to fine tune which rating will be used for a given race or regatta to better match ratings with conditions / courses.   So...in theory these type of rules could lead to fairer racing.

While these VPP based solutions are not perfect, the higher end of our sport has evolved to using science based rating systems in major regattas word wide.  US Sailing, the governing body of our sport in the US, has established a relationship with one of the major science based rating systems, the ORC (Offshore Rating Congress).  The ORC sprang from the old IOR and IMS systems and has been refined over decades.  ORC now has a "Club" rating where boats do NOT have to be pulled out of the water & measured.  Data about the boat is simply entered into the database and the rating certificate is issued.  Often you can pull up a certificate from a sister boat and copy the data over to your boat and then make any changes to reflect your sails, etc....  The certificate cost is approx. $100.  The data comes from boats already in the ORC database (over 90,000 boats so far) or from the builder / designer.   Many types of production cruising boats are in the database, S2's, Cal's, Beneteau' s, Ericson's, etc.....

Over the last few months there have been a number of meetings sponsored by PHRF Galveston Bay to discuss whether adopting the ORC (Offshore Racing Congress) rating system would be of interest to the sailboat racing community.   The GBCA Board of Governors has been asked to consider supporting the adoption of ORC for GBCA events.   After extensive discussion, the BOG is willing to support ORC provided a sufficient number boat owners obtain ORC rating certificates to make the effort worthwhile.   The club will have to obtain special software, learn how to properly apply the system based on conditions & courses , etc....

A guide book that explains this in more detail can be found at http://www.orc.org/rules/ORC%20Guidebook%202016.pdf.  You can see if your boat is in the ORC database by going to http://www.orc.org/index.asp?id=1


Discussion invited.......

Dave Christensen
Member, GBCA BOG
s/v Airborne

[Bee]

I am willing to get an ORC cert.  My only bitch is the price.  I suspect that will be the limiting issue.

[STuma]

If $100 is too much for an annual rating, you are not racing at the level where ORC matters - stick with PHRF. That is less than your nightly bar bill. When running a true 35' race boat program, one can drop about $10k a year to run a successful program; new sails every year (maybe two if it was a light year), new bottom each year (professionally done), replacing running rigging, upgrading hardware, general maintenance, travel expenses (which only a few do, but let's keep this local for now), crew dinners, practices, etc.... Sailboat racing is not cheap. The more intricate the system, there is a cost associated with that.

HYC has committed to adopting ORC and give the support needed in the area. Thank you Dave.

[gadangit]

For what it is worth, I spent ~$60 and got an ORC test certificate, a set of polars and a target speeds sheet for our boat.  The results were surprising to me at the lower wind speeds, but I am going to take a shot at following them.

I copied the one Ericson 39 that was in the database and put in my rig and sail measurements (thanks Pedro!).  I left in the hull measurements.  Didn't take much time and am happy with data it gave back. 

I'd pay for a full certificate if we had a fleet.

Chris

[Bee]

Just to be clear, I personally have no issues with a $100/yr fee.  Absolutely none.  If you are saying that I don't race at the level where ORC matters that's probably true.  If you are saying I do not spend $10K+ a year on Stinger's sailing program that's false. Nevertheless, I do have concerns as to how many GB sailors will find that objectionable.  To make this work I would like to see PHRF completely replaced by ORC.  As a mathematician I have no doubts that the VPP based system will work well.  While I do not know the exact form of the method used to produced the ORC numbers, I do understand how its done. 

If $100 is too much for an annual rating, you are not racing at the level where ORC matters - stick with PHRF. That is less than your nightly bar bill. When running a true 35' race boat program, one can drop about $10k a year to run a successful program; new sails every year (maybe two if it was a light year), new bottom each year (professionally done), replacing running rigging, upgrading hardware, general maintenance, travel expenses (which only a few do, but let's keep this local for now), crew dinners, practices, etc.... Sailboat racing is not cheap. The more intricate the system, there is a cost associated with that.

HYC has committed to adopting ORC and give the support needed in the area. Thank you Dave.

[Charles]

As Dave said in his post,  "After extensive discussion, the BOG is willing to support ORC provided a sufficient number boat owners obtain ORC rating certificates to make the effort worthwhile. "  when enough skippers obtain an ORC certificate, GBCA will attempt to have an ORC class.  So, as soon as any of you get your certificate, let someone on the GBCA board know.
Charles

[Danelaw]

I would wholeheartedly support an ORC format. I fail to understand complaints about cost. Any certificate cost is dwarfed by the cost of keeping a boat on the race course. I got the Polaris from the trial a few years ago, and they were definitely in the ballpark of my boat's capabilities.

Count me in😜

[gadangit]

Okay, got everything done.  I expect to pay for my ORC certificate within a week or two.  Who else wants to race against an old heavy boat??

Chris

[USA74]

I would be willing to pay $100/yr. to keep Bee honest (just kidding B). I need an ORC cert anyway, so happy to volunteer to be the rating guinea pig. Is there an official Galveston Bay measurer?

[gadangit]

I would be willing to pay $100/yr. to keep Bee honest (just kidding B). I need an ORC cert anyway, so happy to volunteer to be the rating guinea pig. Is there an official Galveston Bay measurer?

I don't believe there is a requirement for an official measurer for the ORC Club certificate.  I know I didn't use one.  In fact, all of my hull measurements were a copy from an old certificate issued to a sistership.  I did provide the rigging and sail measurements thanks to Pedro who had all that info.  I was actually missing a measurement and so just measured it myself and sent it in. 

ORR is a different story...

I could be completely wrong about all of this...

Chris

[dc1sail]

JD, there is no requirement to have the boat measured for a club certificate (suitable for racing in Galveston Bay).  However, if you want an international certificate  you must get the boat measured by a certified ORC measurer. Currently there is no such person in the area that I know of.  You would need to fly in Dobbs Davis (ORC representative in the US) or someone like him to do the work.   You only need an international certificate to do the big stuff like the ORC worlds. Key West Race Week used the club approach last year.  Suggest you look the J/122's currently in the ORC database.  I will bet there are some that have international certificates.  It is best to go start with a boat that was measured since the data will be more accurate.  Pick one that is set up like your boat and copy it.  Then change what ever data you need to change (typically sail dimensions, sail inventory, crew weight) and save it as your boat.  You then get a test certificate and can run off the polar diagrams and target boat speed numbers.  The test certificate has everything that the final certificate has but it is not valid for racing since it has not been submitted/ paid for or checked by ORC.  Once you are happy with the test certificate then submit it to get the club certificate.  If you need assistance let me know via email.  I am happy to help.
Dave Christensen
S/V Airborne

[Bee]

I found my 2008 ORC certificate, took the numbers from my latest J105 class main and C & C's genoa and filled out the form.  I have a weight certificate for Stinger so I used the weight listed there as displacement and zapped the application in.  All that's left is to wait.

Wonder how many mistakes I made.

[Bee]

No I don't think you are wrong Chris.  When we did this in 2007-2009 I think there was only one boat that had to be measured and I believe that meant that it was weighed and hull dimensions taken.  I am not sure about that, but I know for sure the only measurement I used for Stinger was the weight on its weight certificate.

Oh, and thank you JD for "trying" to keep me honest. Ain't gonna happen.   Once a sister ship has been measured and especially for most J/Boats all you need to do is give them your sail measurements and standard hull measurements and weight and you are done. Its pretty easy.

I would be willing to pay $100/yr. to keep Bee honest (just kidding B). I need an ORC cert anyway, so happy to volunteer to be the rating guinea pig. Is there an official Galveston Bay measurer?

I don't believe there is a requirement for an official measurer for the ORC Club certificate.  I know I didn't use one.  In fact, all of my hull measurements were a copy from an old certificate issued to a sistership.  I did provide the rigging and sail measurements thanks to Pedro who had all that info.  I was actually missing a measurement and so just measured it myself and sent it in. 

ORR is a different story...

I could be completely wrong about all of this...

Chris

[Mark]

The interest shown by the sailors on the Forum is great. I hope that I can clarify on item - measurements. More specifically the freeboard measurement that determines the boat displacement. This is not required - but it is in the best of the boat to have the freeboards measured. If not measured - the boat will receive the lightest weight in the database for that class.

Members of the local PHRF committee support ORC and are ready to help and answer questions that
may come up as the application process is pursued. You may contact Ken Humphries at 713 249 2569 or Mark Matthews at 832 314 4070 for assistance.

There is a new ORC handbook just placed on their website.  http://www.orc.org/rules/ORC%20Guidebook%202016.pdf
This has answers to many of our questions Pages 7 - 9 - 16 - 17 will be particularly helpful.

[Bee]

Stinger should have her certificate sometime next week.