Recording Finish Times

[DarinK]

As you may have noticed, I have been aggressively suggesting people record their finish times for the Icicle Series.  I would like to give some reasoning as to why.

Some background.  We needed a system to help with Club Handicap.  It was a bit of a mess, and there were many manual steps required each week to keep the wheels running.  I can't imagine the number of hours that Bob spent keeping that machine going.  Hats off to you Bob! 

I can tell you, with Bob's absence, nobody was excited about taking charge of that hot mess.  I took it, knowing full well that I would be able to invest some time in rebuilding it, and it would be easier to run in the long run.  As of now, we have a system that I'm proud of, and I believe the Club guys find it a good solution too.

The other part of the job is scoring the other classes.  In a perfect world, it is a simplistic, self-regulated system.  In practice, I've seen the shit show that occurs when something goes wrong.  I'll let Bob and Dees tell their greatest hits, but I've seen a leader not come by the clubhouse till after the party.  I've seen multiple, varying results from the same class.  I've seen missing boats in results.  I've seen no results submitted, then pieced together with scratches of paper by each of the next 5 competitors.

You can guess who gets to run around trying to fix this.  During a Rum Race, it is exponentially worse because there are more people and they are 2x as drunk.  So fleet captain is madly running around trying to figure out scores.. sending people to the office, asking skippers to come to the office.  Looking at GPS logs, raceQs, until the roar of the Rumless becomes overpowering and fleet captain throws up his arms and just goes with what he has.

Side note - at this point, someone might mention that these Races are just fun, easy going Saturday cruises.  I would like you to tell that to the drunk skipper who loses the a little bottle of rum because of a scoring issue.  A race is a race, and just because you aren't trying doesn't mean everyone else isn't.  There are competitors out there, and I don't blame them.

The second problem we have is data.  Or lack thereof.  How many boats participate in each class?  How many skippers are GBCA members?  What is the delta between club and the other classes?  How any boats show up during a series?  We have no idea.  I come from a marketing data background, and it is a little odd that we can't quantify who are "customers" are.

So.  I would like to use the Club system for all classes, the handicap portion obviously only for Club.  In addition to helping with the above problems, it also gives us consistent scoring and timely results.  The later is great for resolving "bad data" issues.  Also, if we can optimize this, we could get away from having first place sit around for the next 4 boats, which is a real drag even if you get a bottle of rum for your efforts.

Is this a perfect system?  Nope.

Here are all the problems I can think of and how I am trying to mitigate them:

People will fat-finger results.  Especially on a phone.
- Early results allows people to pipe up early and help alleviate some of this. 
- We will add a "boat ahead" and "boat behind" optional field to the results.  Also, I will add an "estimated" finish asterisk to results if we need to change someone's results.
- RaceQs fixes this.  I know not everyone will run it, but it does solve the verification issue. 

Some people don't have a smartphone or carry one on the boat
- Upload your results at the dock
- We will have a tablet available at the clubhouse for people to upload then

People will use finish times to affect their rating
- PHRFGB doesn't care if we post finish times.  Boat owners will get data however they can, and only PHRFGB can distinguish what is relevant.

Icicle/Rum is an easy race.  You are adding "hassle"
- First, we are trying to streamline the process as best we can to reduce "hassle."  See below for how to enter results
- Don't do it.  Go our for your cruise and don't upload your time.  Enjoy your cruise, but you won't be scored.

It is inefficient for ALL boats to have to upload times rather than the leader
- If we can get away from having the leader wait, I'm not sure that is true.  If you are in Club on a slow day, you might have to wait 30 minutes.
- This assumes that result scoring will be easy.  If you believe this, I have a board position for you next year.  You can take the club back to pen and paper.
- Again, we have multiple streamlines in place to make uploading the results easy, and it should take no more than a minute

I am unable to calculate a finish time
- You found a way to get to the start on time. 
- Club has been doing it for years.  I'm sure you can figure it out.

How do I upload results?
http://racing.gbca.org

The first time you use this page, you must fill the whole thing out.  It is a pain, but I believe all the information is needed.

The second time you come to the page, assuming you have cookies enabled, all the information should load, and you will only need to input your finish time.  If you should have cleared your cookies OR you are on another device, if you type in the email address provided previously, and all your information will load.

Again, if using the same phone, all but the first time entering data, you will only need to input your finish time.  All data should already be filled out based on your previous input.

The page is "mobile ready" so it should format well for either phones, tablets, or desktops.  On the phone, it should show BIG calculator type numbers when inputting your finish time.  This should help with fat-fingering the results.

We will have a tablet at the merchandise table to help people people enter finish times.  If it is your first time, please see Beverly.

Improvements
The board has suggested some improvements, and I'm evaluating/working on them. 

One suggestion is to have the "lookup" done by boat name and sail number.  Then, besides the first entry, anyone can score finish times.  This gets a bit tricky, because there isn't a good way to regulate who is making the changes.  With the email address as a "key," it makes regulation a bit easier, but harder for someone, like a crew member, to upload results on the skipper's behalf.

Another idea is to include an optional "boat ahead" and "boat behind" fields with the finish time.  I'm split on this idea.  What if the person behind you didn't want to score themselves?  It also adds more "hassle," which... heaven forbid.


Feedback

I don't plan to modify the SIs.  Yes, you can refuse to use this system.  The first place boat must continue to record times, and we will accept the first place sheet, and you don't need to do anything more.  However, if you upload your time.  It makes my life easier.

I do plan to vote to change the SIs for the Rum Races and require finish times.  I don't know yet about the first boat taking positions yet.  It seems like we should be able to get away from it, but the board is definitely on the fence about it.  Verification is definitely useful.

I apologize for the wall of text.  There are many points to consider.

Last, I value your feedback.  Please let me know what you think.  Though, if you are vehemently against this whole concept, I have an exciting board position available for you.

[Charles]

"BUMP"

As you may have noticed, I have been aggressively suggesting people record their finish times for the Icicle Series.  I would like to give some reasoning as to why.

Some background.  We needed a system to help with Club Handicap.  It was a bit of a mess, and there were many manual steps required each week to keep the wheels running.  I can't imagine the number of hours that Bob spent keeping that machine going.  Hats off to you Bob! 

I can tell you, with Bob's absence, nobody was excited about taking charge of that hot mess.  I took it, knowing full well that I would be able to invest some time in rebuilding it, and it would be easier to run in the long run.  As of now, we have a system that I'm proud of, and I believe the Club guys find it a good solution too.

The other part of the job is scoring the other classes.  In a perfect world, it is a simplistic, self-regulated system.  In practice, I've seen the shit show that occurs when something goes wrong.  I'll let Bob and Dees tell their greatest hits, but I've seen a leader not come by the clubhouse till after the party.  I've seen multiple, varying results from the same class.  I've seen missing boats in results.  I've seen no results submitted, then pieced together with scratches of paper by each of the next 5 competitors.

You can guess who gets to run around trying to fix this.  During a Rum Race, it is exponentially worse because there are more people and they are 2x as drunk.  So fleet captain is madly running around trying to figure out scores.. sending people to the office, asking skippers to come to the office.  Looking at GPS logs, raceQs, until the roar of the Rumless becomes overpowering and fleet captain throws up his arms and just goes with what he has.

Side note - at this point, someone might mention that these Races are just fun, easy going Saturday cruises.  I would like you to tell that to the drunk skipper who loses the a little bottle of rum because of a scoring issue.  A race is a race, and just because you aren't trying doesn't mean everyone else isn't.  There are competitors out there, and I don't blame them.

The second problem we have is data.  Or lack thereof.  How many boats participate in each class?  How many skippers are GBCA members?  What is the delta between club and the other classes?  How any boats show up during a series?  We have no idea.  I come from a marketing data background, and it is a little odd that we can't quantify who are "customers" are.

So.  I would like to use the Club system for all classes, the handicap portion obviously only for Club.  In addition to helping with the above problems, it also gives us consistent scoring and timely results.  The later is great for resolving "bad data" issues.  Also, if we can optimize this, we could get away from having first place sit around for the next 4 boats, which is a real drag even if you get a bottle of rum for your efforts.

Is this a perfect system?  Nope.

Here are all the problems I can think of and how I am trying to mitigate them:

People will fat-finger results.  Especially on a phone.
- Early results allows people to pipe up early and help alleviate some of this. 
- We will add a "boat ahead" and "boat behind" optional field to the results.  Also, I will add an "estimated" finish asterisk to results if we need to change someone's results.
- RaceQs fixes this.  I know not everyone will run it, but it does solve the verification issue. 

Some people don't have a smartphone or carry one on the boat
- Upload your results at the dock
- We will have a tablet available at the clubhouse for people to upload then

People will use finish times to affect their rating
- PHRFGB doesn't care if we post finish times.  Boat owners will get data however they can, and only PHRFGB can distinguish what is relevant.

Icicle/Rum is an easy race.  You are adding "hassle"
- First, we are trying to streamline the process as best we can to reduce "hassle."  See below for how to enter results
- Don't do it.  Go our for your cruise and don't upload your time.  Enjoy your cruise, but you won't be scored.

It is inefficient for ALL boats to have to upload times rather than the leader
- If we can get away from having the leader wait, I'm not sure that is true.  If you are in Club on a slow day, you might have to wait 30 minutes.
- This assumes that result scoring will be easy.  If you believe this, I have a board position for you next year.  You can take the club back to pen and paper.
- Again, we have multiple streamlines in place to make uploading the results easy, and it should take no more than a minute

I am unable to calculate a finish time
- You found a way to get to the start on time. 
- Club has been doing it for years.  I'm sure you can figure it out.

How do I upload results?
http://racing.gbca.org

The first time you use this page, you must fill the whole thing out.  It is a pain, but I believe all the information is needed.

The second time you come to the page, assuming you have cookies enabled, all the information should load, and you will only need to input your finish time.  If you should have cleared your cookies OR you are on another device, if you type in the email address provided previously, and all your information will load.

Again, if using the same phone, all but the first time entering data, you will only need to input your finish time.  All data should already be filled out based on your previous input.

The page is "mobile ready" so it should format well for either phones, tablets, or desktops.  On the phone, it should show BIG calculator type numbers when inputting your finish time.  This should help with fat-fingering the results.

We will have a tablet at the merchandise table to help people people enter finish times.  If it is your first time, please see Beverly.

Improvements
The board has suggested some improvements, and I'm evaluating/working on them. 

One suggestion is to have the "lookup" done by boat name and sail number.  Then, besides the first entry, anyone can score finish times.  This gets a bit tricky, because there isn't a good way to regulate who is making the changes.  With the email address as a "key," it makes regulation a bit easier, but harder for someone, like a crew member, to upload results on the skipper's behalf.

Another idea is to include an optional "boat ahead" and "boat behind" fields with the finish time.  I'm split on this idea.  What if the person behind you didn't want to score themselves?  It also adds more "hassle," which... heaven forbid.


Feedback

I don't plan to modify the SIs.  Yes, you can refuse to use this system.  The first place boat must continue to record times, and we will accept the first place sheet, and you don't need to do anything more.  However, if you upload your time.  It makes my life easier.

I do plan to vote to change the SIs for the Rum Races and require finish times.  I don't know yet about the first boat taking positions yet.  It seems like we should be able to get away from it, but the board is definitely on the fence about it.  Verification is definitely useful.

I apologize for the wall of text.  There are many points to consider.

Last, I value your feedback.  Please let me know what you think.  Though, if you are vehemently against this whole concept, I have an exciting board position available for you.

[gadangit]

Okay, I'll bite:  I like it.  I like seeing who came in ahead of me and by how much.  It sounds like this is the first of a few iterations, which is normal for any new system.  I probably spent 3 minutes trying to figure out when I went across the line and recording that time on the website.  There was still rum.

Chris

[B Sailing/Alan Bates]

I think this will be a good change---IF we can get the skippers to input the data.....I thought there was some provision for flogging the lead boats who do not turn in accurate and timely finishes.

[Bee]

You may have posted this previously,  but how do you "correct" PHRF for boats above or below the corrected time?

Let me rephrase.  Given that the correction is built in, all boats should finish at the same time.
The corrected time for every boat should be constant.  What  method you use to do come up
with a correction factor for each boats PHRF?

[DarinK]

"how do you "correct" PHRF for boats above or below the corrected time?"

I'm not sure I understand the question.  If you are referring to Club Handicap, that uses a formula based on the delta from median finish time.

If you asking how we come up the start times based on PHRF, I honestly don't know.  I'm sure there is a formula or fairy dust or something.  Fleet captain just hands that to me.

[Emmett715]

Seeking to clarify something:

We are not in the business of assigning PHRF ratings. Taking a finish time is merely a way to place boats in order without having to specify who was 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.

Start times are based on the PHRF rating, course length, and our start time of the race for the slowest boat.

We will not "correct" or change any PHRF ratings. Only the cruising club as has always been done.

-Emmett

[STuma]

I think to clarify Bee's question (please correct me if I misunderstood), it seems that you want to implement the Club's adjustable rating to all participants... correct? That is what I understood, and I think Bee is asking...

He is one of many that is probably not familiar with the idea... So Bee, when boats finish in the top of the pack; 1st, 2nd, etc, their rating will go down a factor and the boats in the bottom of the pack will have their rating raised. Essentially, it rates each boat on their performance, not the boat design. The PHRFGB ratings are only used as a base number. There has been much conversation on the factors at each end of the spectrum.

You may have posted this previously,  but how do you "correct" PHRF for boats above or below the corrected time?

Let me rephrase.  Given that the correction is built in, all boats should finish at the same time.
The corrected time for every boat should be constant.  What  method you use to do come up
with a correction factor for each boats PHRF?

[DarinK]

We have no plans to adjust anything other than Club.

[Bee]

No that's not what I am thinking.  I was asking about the algorithm, (that's like a tiny app) that actually computes the "new" PHRF numbers based on how a boat finished.

I think to clarify Bee's question (please correct me if I misunderstood), it seems that you want to implement the Club's adjustable rating to all participants... correct? That is what I understood, and I think Bee is asking...

He is one of many that is probably not familiar with the idea... So Bee, when boats finish in the top of the pack; 1st, 2nd, etc, their rating will go down a factor and the boats in the bottom of the pack will have their rating raised. Essentially, it rates each boat on their performance, not the boat design. The PHRFGB ratings are only used as a base number. There has been much conversation on the factors at each end of the spectrum.

You may have posted this previously,  but how do you "correct" PHRF for boats above or below the corrected time?

Let me rephrase.  Given that the correction is built in, all boats should finish at the same time.
The corrected time for every boat should be constant.  What  method you use to do come up
with a correction factor for each boats PHRF?

[DarinK]

Let me start a new thread regarding the PHRF Algorithm.

[STuma]

thanks Bee, I needed the clarification of what an algorithm was....

No that's not what I am thinking.  I was asking about the algorithm, (that's like a tiny app) that actually computes the "new" PHRF numbers based on how a boat finished.

I think to clarify Bee's question (please correct me if I misunderstood), it seems that you want to implement the Club's adjustable rating to all participants... correct? That is what I understood, and I think Bee is asking...

He is one of many that is probably not familiar with the idea... So Bee, when boats finish in the top of the pack; 1st, 2nd, etc, their rating will go down a factor and the boats in the bottom of the pack will have their rating raised. Essentially, it rates each boat on their performance, not the boat design. The PHRFGB ratings are only used as a base number. There has been much conversation on the factors at each end of the spectrum.

You may have posted this previously,  but how do you "correct" PHRF for boats above or below the corrected time?

Let me rephrase.  Given that the correction is built in, all boats should finish at the same time.
The corrected time for every boat should be constant.  What  method you use to do come up
with a correction factor for each boats PHRF?

[shawn]

Darin

Thanks for bringing us out of pen and paper.  As an old data guy I always prefer an easier way to collect data.  I don't mind entering our time individually.  Yes I fat fingered on my phone a couple times.  I will try the Race Q next time if I can remember.