Saving our sport.

[Kevin Box]

By the way Dr. Box, how did this go last year?

Bee,

It went well.  We gained new members and new racers.  It's happening again this year at:

http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubs/gbca.html

[Andrea]

Question for you one design guys:  If there are only two of you, would you rather race in a two boat division and compete for one trophy (as suggested above), or race in a handicap class with seven other boats for four trophies? 

Some good head to head competition could be good, even in a big fleet like HMR.

[Bee]

Match racing against an equal is my preference. 

Malcolm and I went at each other in the HYC Midwinter, and that was some of the most intense and fun racing I have ever done.  The two boats were never far apart and always in the hunt. Malcolm is a lot more experienced then I am and he pulled some really interesting tricks on us.  Its always more fun when the boats are all within striking distance of each other.

I vote for two boat classes.  Heck with the trophies.

[Bee]

This is probably the worst political thing one could do, but I would also like to see some regattas run with both PHRF and ORC where, regardless of start, all boats are rated as if they are in one big class.  Hell, I would go so far as to have one big gigantic start.

Why would you do that you ask?

It would give us a chance to evaluate the systems on a very practical basis.  Is ORC really the leveler that some think it is?

All of the current local J105's have been weighed with highly accurate digital scales.  Since ORC makes use of this number we might be able to get some idea of what the differences actually mean.  Same might be true for the 80's, J122's, and other OD style boats. Just how big of a difference is 100#?

Probably a waste of time to suggest it.  Quite certain that at least one PHRF'er would  not take kindly to a J105 with a PHRF of 78 racing class sails with a handicap of 87 and a corresponding ORC certificate.

[BJSailor]

After a bit of time observing, it seems that there a few distinct groups of sailors/racers (in absolutely no particular order):
1)  A group of hard-core one-design racers that want nothing more than to mix it up with their own kind.  They seem to prefer windward / leeward courses, fairly short (1.5nm or less) and a duration of less than 1 hour 15 minutes.
2)  One design racers who enjoy the "knife fight" of duking it out with identical boats, but who are also agreeable to sail in a larger fleet with more boats if that is what it takes.  These boats are agreeable to fit into a PHRF fleet as long as the fleet balances out in a fairly equitable fashion as far as the handicaps go.  They seem to prefer windward / leeward courses, but are satisfied with 1.5nm courses and races that last a bit longer.
3)  Those very competitive spinnaker racers that are not one-designs, but crave the racing environment.  These folks have the faster one-off (not one-design) boats that the love to race and are willing to spend the time and $'s to make them as fast as possible.  These are usually the PHRF A types who like windward / leewards and are usually satisfied with courses long enough to test them (1.25nm) but not so long as to make it a parade (1.25 hours or so)
4)  PHRF B type boats.  These folks normally have boats with higher handicaps, but still want to mix it up with competive spinnaker sailing.  Again, they prefer their own kind - those boats with similar handicaps where everyone can stay in touch with each other during a race with nobody extending (or trailing) too far.  1.5nm and 1.25 - 1.5 hours seems the right length for these folks.
5)  Serious non-spinnaker racers.  Prefer to not race with a chute - whether because they don't have one, don't want one, or don't have the crew or perceived experience to race spinnaker.  This is not a small group of sailors - a very large minority.  These racer's first choice is also windward / leeward, but they will often be happy with courses with free legs (fixed marks).  Over a weekend, they would like 2-3 races on Saturday and 2 on Sunday.  They're out there to race and are willing to work hard to go racing. 
6)  New racers and "relaxed" non-spinnaker racers.  These are folks who love being on the water and sailing from point to point with a goal and an incentive to do well.  These boats are typically happy sailing whatever course is set for them.  Fixed marks are just fine for this group.
7)  Those sailors who bring their boat out infrequently and don't worry about things like ratings or handicaps.  These folks just enjoy the activity of sailing and being around other sailors.  Sometimes they need some mentoring / coaching.  But, for the most part, they are enthusiastic and accommodating.
  SOS.  Single and Double Handers are another group that must be considered.  Some of them are highly competive and talented sailors and they take their racing seriously.  This group has carved out their own niche in our racing community and continue to be popular.  Fixed marks and/or longish legs seem to be their preference.
9)  Only-Want-To-Race-One-Regatta-A-Year - There a large number of folks who we only see in events like the Harvest Moon.  Never see them racing on the Bay.  Almost never see them on any event except for their exceptional turnout for the HMR.  LYC has a challenge in handling these one-a-year racers (and I don't envy them their job).
10)  Sportsboats!  What an ignored group in this area!  Vipers, Melges, SBs, Lasers, even J/80s.  We've never figured out how to handle these planing rockets.  When one (or a small fleet) shows up, they end up getting shoehorned into our other handicap classes. 
11)  Small keel / centerboarders.  Ensigns, Lightnings, Sonars, Solings, Etchells, Flying Scots - who else am I forgetting.  Occasionally these sailors appear, but they seem to gravitate to TCYC and some to HYC.  0.5 - 0.75nm courses of 45min or 1hr in length.  Similar requirements to the sportboats.
12)  Dinghys.  Lasers, 29ers, 420s etc.  Rarely seen on Galveston Bay except for Seabrook Sailing Club and TSA Youth Circuit.  You've got no idea how much fun these events can be!
13)  Speaking ouf Youth events...  HYC, TCYC, and LYC all have active youth programs.  If we want to grow, we absolutely need to grow this area!!!  Kids who are 8-15 have their own circuit.  Youth 15-18 can still compete in Lasers, 29ers and 420s.  But, other than the minimal collegiate programs, where do older youth and young adults go to continue their competitive racing?

I'm sure there are more groups, and I'm sure more folks who are smarter than I will re-classify and create other groups.  What is important is that there a large number of diverse groups that ALL must be acommodated and encouraged to participate.  Trying to satisfy such a large number of sailors who have such diverse requirements, is always a challenge.  Events that are targeted toward specific groups tend to alienate a large group of sailors.  Events that try to be all-inclusive can be challenging in trying to satisfy everybody.  For everyone out there who is, and has been, a racer - take some time to get involved in organizing and running these events.  It's fun and rewarding.

Bottom line - WHAT CAN WE DO TO GET MORE BOATS / SAILORS ON THE WATER?

[Andrea]

Bee
For HMR we are seriously considering scoring the Bacardi fleet under both systems. The over all trophy would be ORC Club but boats could choose between an Orc division or a phrf division IF there are enough similar boats to create a PHRF division. We would also limit the cruising spinnaker class to poleless cruising spinnakers. Any boat that has an A kite and a symmetrical kite or a sprit boat would have to go to the Bacardi fleet but could race PHRF if there are similar boats to create a division, but would also be eligible for the Bacardi Cup if the boat had an ORC certificate. By the same token we could consider small one design divisions if we had a couple J105s or J109s. Some would-be cruising spin boats would have to decide whether they want to leave most of their spinnaker inventory at home or move into a combined Bacardi fleet.
The goals would be :
Protect cruisers - who were the focus of the original regatta - from hard core racers
Create more competition with in the Bacardi fleet by encouraging experienced, well equipped boats to race with racers
Accomodate boats who do not believe they are treated equitably by a handicap system

[Bee]

Andrea

Last year we won the Commodore's Cup.  We know that kind of irritated a couple of the folks in that division, but I have to admit I did not think it would happen.  Not really nice to race against a lightweight A-Kite boat, but except for when the front came through the winds were not actually favorable to us.  Wound up fourth in ORC (at least according to the cert I used) and fourth overall in PHRF (including the ORC boats).  That amazed me. 

I really have no problems with running both systems and would love to see it.   Nevertheless, I am a bit concerned about someone who might win in PHRF and lose in ORC.  That person would not be very happy, so I am somewhat uncomfortable with my suggestion.  I also think that because the big time racers are running ORC, the Barcardi Cup has become "THE CUP" and the Commordore's Cup has somehow become "the cup".  They need to be equal in terms of respect.  We need to make sure that both Cups get equal respect.  Not sure I know how to do this but we should try to find a way. Certainly A messy political situation so tread delicately.

My only real problem with ORC is the recognition that a number of folks think its somehow less advantageous than PHRF.  Yes, just like PHRF one can cheat, but given honest sailors that should only happen once in a great while and everyone will know who the ringer is. The real reason I suggested running a number of side-by-sides is that we could choose the winner based on PHRF but at least see how the fleet finished with the more mathematical system.  Might make ORC more acceptable and maybe even a system to be used more routinely. Stinger will be running ORC in the HMR this year for sure.  Its probably too late for this season, but what I would like to see is to run the Spring, Midwinter, Shoe, Elissa, Bank, Leukemia, and the Turkey day with enough boats running both systems (including the OD classes) to see how all this shakes out.

I think your goals are fine.  Being the ultra aggressive guy I am I do have trouble understanding the so called "cruisers" but I from what I heard I do have a lot more respect for them and for how they look at sailing.  Definitely need to make sure we respect them and keep them coming out. Anyone who spends two days sailing over from New Orleans to do the HMR has to be a decent sailor, even if he never did any other race in his entire life.

Personally, I would always want to be in the hunt for one of the two CUPs.  I'm not  all that motivated by the trophies you hand out, but I clearly do like to win, am I am very unlikely to give up my kites.

Would be nice to use one system.

[hayesrigging]

If we are going to continue to use ORC in our area I think it would be good to have an ORC only regatta on the bay.  All boats race under ORC, no PHRF.  They did this in the early 90's with IMS on the bay.  The participation was very limited but at least you can test the system and sure after the race everyone will compare it to PHRF and see how it compares.

As for Harvest Moon my vote would be to have either ORC or PHRF but not both.  We dont have enough boats to have two "racing" fleets.  ORC seems to pretty decent when the options are left open for wind direction/strength and type of course.  PHRF ratings for HM are hit or miss depending on conditions and wind angle.

[KevinBednar]

PHRF-GB has given us some seriously good racing and I still haven't seen anything to convince me that ORC would be any more fair.  This after what, 4 years of testing?

[Bee]

I basically agree with goth the Kevin's, but I still would like to see a direct one-on-one comparison.  KH's suggestion that we run an ORC fest in the bay is a good one.  This could be a PHRF winner takes all type affair with ORC used for comparison purposes only.  I also agree that for any given race the results should be based on one system only.  As I said earlier the use of one system for the Barcardi and another for the Commodore's Cup would appear to belittle one vs the other.  Perhaps I am wrong about that but I am convinced that one and only one system should be used in any given race/regatta.

[thomas]

Wow! Very informative reading.  Thank you.

[Danelaw]

I myself wonder about why the olympic (traingle windward leeward ) courses went away. This course selection would certainly make it easier on the larger boats who can't manouver like a J 22. Would any of the clubs be willing to employ this tried and true course layout for a major regatta?

Roy

[hayesrigging]

The triangle courses went away because the reaching legs are basically "no passing zones".  I am not sure that it is easier to handle a larger boat on a triangle.  If the triangle is set properly then you must execute a reach to reach jibe with the spin pole up.  That is probably the hardest manuever to do with a large symetric boat.  Especially considering on a lot of older "IOR" type boats you can square the pole back and go almost dead downwind and many cases never have to gybe. 

My two cents anyways!!

[budster]

Just a few points regarding triangular courses:

1) Reaches are 'No Passing Zones' (aka 'The Parade') unless demanding conditions require higher boat and sail handling skills from the crews and/or equipment (loads increase dramatically as one sails closer to the wind).   'Up in the Lulls, Down in the Puffs', and using the apparent wind to pass to leeward become highly rewarded skills, as these become the techniques used for passing on reaches.

2) A triangular course easily becomes skewed with any wind shift, making one reach tighter and the other broader (see 1 above). Even the steady breezes of Galveston Bay make it difficult for a race committee to keep the course as designed. It also requires a third stake boat and crew to stand by, on station at the wing mark, to move it if necessary....

3) A lot of today's modern designs easily pop up on a plane on tighter reaches. No rating system on Galveston Bay properly accounts for the increased speed of planing (Portsmouth does). Owners of older designs should not be campaigning for triangular courses if they are going to race in planing conditions for their competition... unless, of course, they are compassionate, understanding, and ok watching a passing competitor, their bow spray landing fifteen feet behind their stern, catching occasional glimpses through the spray of the beaming grins and wide eyes of their excited crew.

4) Wind shifts provide opportunities to pass and are more easily tracked on leeward legs. Lack of planing (usually) on leeward legs allows the rating system to better account for design differences.

5) No passing zones aren't necessarily bad things for those participants that just enjoy going around a race course with, and against, their friends... or for those that want a leg on which to relax a little, or break out lunch.

6) So, quite possibly it boils down for whom the race committee is setting the race course. Reaches are faster and definitely require a different skill set. For some designs, reaches can determine the more experienced, stronger crews, or allow some time on the race course for a cheese cracker and a sip of wine.

Everything has its place...

[Bee]

80's, 105's, j109's, j122, M24's, and m32's all love reaching triangles ---- so long as they are in front of the competition.