Saving our sport.

[Danelaw]

Looking at the steadily shrinking scratch sheets of Galveston Bay handicap racing events, it merits reflection on possible causes, and what could be done to revitilize the handicap race fleets.

The ORC rule, for a while, seemed to hold a lot of promise as a cost effective way to handicap boats using only speed potential, not crew performance, as its only criteria. I still believe that the ORC, competently managed, could work. Proof that it is a fair rule was demonstrated in the 2007 Harvest Moon race. The first four boats that year,  Premier, Neftigaz, Mojo,(the Melges) and Danelaw, ( a 40 year old design)  demonstrated that the VPP of radically different designs generated highly accurate results. We can assume that all 4 boats were sailed to the top of their potential. Mojo and Danelaw corrected within 63 seconds of each other.

PHRF, for some of us, has become frustrating to the point of killing all desire to go through the expense and effort to race, when it is clear that other boats in your class that you owe time to, or rate even with, are simply physically faster by every paramenter that makes a boat fast. I've been racing GBCA events religiously for over 4 decades, and it is hard to think about giving up on something I've enjoyed for so long. I'd like to think that there still is hope for regenerating interest in handicap racing. I'd be glad to offer my input into possible ways to implement a handicap rule, that would rate boats by the boat's potential, nothing more. 

     

[ChrisA]

Roy, I don't know how to answer that. but you make some serious and well thought out points. I can assure you that GBCA and the other authorities are quite concerned about the diminishing fleet. Your input and any one else's is helpful and much appreciated.

[billC]

I can only offer an opinion on the spin a/b side of the fleet.  I have  been racing since 2005, and it was the rum races, both on Lake Pontchartrain and subsequently Galveston Bay that allowed us to break into the sport at our own pace.  Then having a reasonable selection of W/L races allowed us to work on our skills and improve as a team.  Having a fleet of similar boats certainly makes it more interesting.  My best memories on the bay are of the close racing in the level 70 fleet with our 36.7 and then the constant battle with Gambler and Hot Ticket for the past two years with our J122. 

When you are investing in a program Otra Vez and want to compete at a high level you are going to have to travel the boat some and race on the bay some, and when the top of the fleet is so small, the fleet can almost disappear for extended periods just from schedule conflicts.

At this point, I think the bay is still suffering from some post-Ike issues, and from a natural rotation of owners and interests.  GBCA, LYC, HYC, still run great races and I don't think PHRF is the reason for the decline.  Otra Vez has a CSA, IRC, ORC and PHRF rating.  Each has it pluses and minuses but at no point did I feel we had no chance of winning under any of the ratings.  If I had a vote, I would say IRC as I have seen that work across a wide range of well sailed boats but it is CRAZY expensive to get rated.

The rum races (or any fixed mark race with a social component)  are the key to getting big boats out on the race course and their owners bitten by the racing bug.  I would really make an effort to get new boats out racing this summer and then find a way to bridge the gap from the rum to the icicle series.

Otra Vez will be back from the Caribbean sometime in the next two years and will look forward to racing amongst friends on the bay.

Bill Coates

[Andrea]

No system is perfect, and many people have given countless hours to try to give fair ratings, and I know we all appreciate the time they put into it, whether we like a particular system or not.
I am heading the Harvest Moon Regatta committee this year.  While I like the ORC Club system, the fleet has not adopted it for other races, so I suggested we go back to using PHRF for the Bacardi fleet.  However, the race organizers want the best system available for the club's most prestigious trophy, and they believe, in part for the reasons Roy stated, that ORC is that system.  John Butler has agreed to help with administration of the system, and we would welcome any other involvement, including a joint effort with the PHRF committee.  There is some indication that US Sailing is going to be more supportive of ORC Club too.  I have heard that ISAf has directed that IRC and ORC put their heads together and come up with a single system, but that won't happen overnight.  In the past, because the Europeans did not race in January and February, it was usually March before ORC Club certificates could be issued for the year. Since Australia adopted ORC (getting rid of IRC, I think) they are now issuing certificates earlier in the year, so we can begin soliciting renewals at the first of each year, instead of waiting until just before HMR.  I have often thought that rum races were great but could not be done using ORC, but I guess there is nothing preventing the use of the ORC General Purpose Handicap single number to create a race run like GBCA's rum races. 

[Andrea]

I need to say that the simplicity of the PHRF one number system works well for our HMR cruising class.  While our cruisiers balk a getting a PHRF certificate, they have to provide us the same info, and we use PHRF procedures to rate them, for the most part.  But there are so many of them, we can sort them by water line length, sail area to displacement, length to displacement, and PHRF base ratings, and then put them into divisions of very similar boats.  As a result, they get pretty good competition within their division of 8 to 12 boats.  but they don't do windward leewards.  We do get some of them out for our other longer bay races like Bay Cup and the Shoe distance race.  We have talked about resurrecting a classic canvas class to try to keep the more experienced guys from demoralizing the cruisers who are just starting out. 

[Bee]

First the rating system(s)

I was, at first, very pleased to see the ORC rating system arrive on the bay.  I expected this system to at the very least really level the playing field, and I think that is verified by the close corrected timings in the HMR. I also expected it to tone down the political gyrations associated with PHRF.  I was surprised that this did not happen.  There were three issues with the system.  First it used two numbers.  Its not always easy to do the correction for each and every boat your up against, so its close to impossible to figure out your standing at the finish.  Second, only one club adopted the system then only for one long offshore race.  Yeah I know you can, in theory, sign up ORC for any of the club's races, but I haven't observed those classes making.  Third, under ORC, not only can any given boat have as many certificates as he or she can come up with, OD boats can have different ratings.

I have never raced IRC so I don't know what the issues are there but I do see this system being available in a large number of venues.

So as far as the rating system goes, I have three suggestions:

!. What ever system you use be sure to get the results out as fast as you possibly can.  With todays technology it should be possible to have this happen immediately after the last boat finishes or at least after the time limit is reached.  GBCA has been doing this on the RC boat so with a smart phone you can get the info on the water even before you dock.

2. Get all the local clubs to offer the potential for a large number of boats to register for the system.  Might even consider doing some thing like a rum race for as many boats as one can provide preliminary certificates for.

3.  Make sure that when the race starts the OD boats all have the same numbers.  They will bitch if one boats gets a perceived rating advantage.

Getting more boats on the water

I have no idea as to how to entice more folks to come out and play, but I do have the feeling that the average HMR participant is not really a race bitten sailor.  Those that I have spoken to at length are much more interested in their boats from a creature comfort and socializing/partying point of view.  I admit to have been surprised by this at first because as most of you know I can be a super aggressive animal.  I don't know if getting these guys out can result in more participation with us racing nerds or not (I suspect not) but I do know that these guys like their form of sailing as much as we like ours.  With this much of a rant in place, I would suggest that

1.  The local clubs get together and organize some "Get behind the wheel days" (See the posts in the corresponding thread)."  I would be happy to have Stinger participate.  I am quite sure Stinger is not the only possibility.  Each club could get some publicity for this and hopefully entice some new memberships.

2.  Make sure each NOR lets everyone know which types of race courses will be offered.  This is a resource issue and consequently one cannot expect each and every club to have all varieties but every once in a while different courses might be just the ticket to get more boats out.

3.  Find a way for those not associated with any of the more traditional yacht clubs to be able to at least buy their libations at that clubs bar.  As someone who lived in Oklahoma at the time of that states great blue laws, I can tell you that every club in town had temporary memberships for pennies on the dollar.  There has to be a way to make this easy at each of the clubs without limiting club membership.

OK, this is more than 2 cents worth of rant, but I am really worried about the lessening of participation in sail boat racing.  Not sure anything will work but we definitely need to be creative and try.

[Danelaw]

Bee had some good points.

I would sure like to get a read on how many of us would give ORC another chance if some of their concerns could be mollified.

Roy

[billC]

Proper boat measurements are the foundation of a "measured" rule.  Unless they are done to an agreed standard you will get into the same situation as with PHRF.  It may have cost an arm, a leg, and two winch handles but the endorsed IRC has been the best rating we have raced under.  If you want to go ORCi or ORC Club full on, we are going to need to get some sort of measurement standard and measurers in place, and make sure it is done at a reasonable cost.


Bill

[Bee]

Proper boat measurement is absolutely necessary, but I bet that except for something like a Melges 32 or 24, every boat in a given class will get a different number.  When you allow for AC, actual weight, roller furlers, ... each mathematical system will come up with a different set of numbers. Yet, when the class race takes off the ratings are flat.

I fully agree that we should get a set of measurers and have the boats measured and, dare I say it, weighed under reasonable restrictions about what's on board when the boat is on the scale.  That would give a minimum weight for each boat and would leave it up to the owner to decide how much additional stuff he wanted to take with him during the race.

I have had access to the true weights of several J105's and I can tell you that the range was quite impressive.  Nevertheless we all race scratch.  To loose in ORC to a competitors J105 due simply to a difference in certificate numbers does not set well. 

For OD boats I would definitely like to see a single certificate.

Most of the spin boats could probably get an ORC cert quite easily.  What I would like to see is a year of races where the boats are rated using both systems.  Yeah, I mean every regatta we run, including to the extent possible the Rum races. This would give everyone a sense of what the differences are and then let them choose which system they want.  One could still score based on PHRF but the results would be posted both ways.  I also know that there would still be a lot of bitching about why they won in ORC but lost in PHRF, but this is the only way I can see to provide the basis for a decision in favor of one system or the other.

[sailfastliveslow]

If you think Galveston Bay has issues, come to Corpus.  We've average 3-5 boats TOTAL for our "regattas".  Let's face it folks, sailing's simply too damn expensive and time consuming for 99.99% of the human race.  I own and campaign two boats, travel the entire US to find competition and frankly, it's getting worrisome.

I believe the only solution is noew blood.  We want more people, more boats?  Give them the equipment.  Seriously.  Until clubs and/or organizations come forward with dirt cheap access to boats, ain't gonna happen.  How cheap?  $200 annually cheap.  No kidding.  I can play tennis in numerous leagues anywhere in the US for less than $200 annually.  Until sailing makes it dirt cheap and dumb simple, we will all soon be racing single digit regattas.  Count on it.

IMHO

Humbug

[Bee]

While I pretty much agree with your conclusion, the question remains how do we get the young blood out there.  I guess I believe that most of the young blood that comes into the sport does so through dinghies, opti's, sunfish, and the like.  Unfortunately even those fleets are suffering.  Up here on GB, most of us have trouble finding reasonable crew.  Just a few years ago this was difficulty, but certainly not as hard as it appears to be today.  Finding and keeping good crew is a major effort.

I will be the first to admit that I do not have a good handle on why the sport appears to have dropped of so fast, but I still would like to see us do something to try and increase participation.  I doubt that the major manufacturers can lower their prices very much so the costs will not change.  If the only factor is cost, then we are pretty much doomed.

[Argent]

My gut feeling is that its a combination of factors.  There are a lot of classic novels and even modern movies that make the point that sailing is either the domain of the wealthy OR the choice for those who have some "call of sea" in their veins.  Sailing in many forms has a reputation for requiring lifetime dedication to a skill - becoming a "sailor" might be in the minds of many people a career, not a hobby or a sport.  In addition, there is not to my knowledge a lot of awareness of the sport or the opportunities.  Because of this, I think its something that people don't connect with themselves - they see it as a distant luxury.  That has been my experience sharing my sailing adventures with my friends and acquaintances at least.  

I think its trivial to counteract these perceptions, but it needs to be done on an individual basis, e.g. really connecting with people who show an interest and saying "YOU can sail, this is for YOU, not just that guy out there already, or the Thomas Crown guy or Larry Ellison, etc..."  Of course, part of the draw to sailing for some people IS the elan associated, but there will always be the America's Cup to aspire to...

Growing up, the biggest influence getting me into sailing was boy scouts.  

I have no idea what relationship, if any, the various yacht clubs in the area have with local boy and girl scouting chapters, but that is a tremendous way to introduce youth to the sport as something accessible to them.  As an Eagle Scout myself, its something I would personally be willing to try and donate at least some time to, as little as I have available.

Other ideas off the top of my head: sailing clubs at local universities?  I know A&M has a great program, what about the smaller colleges and universities with locations around the bay?  I'm sure there are several, I am personally just wondering what the racing community could do, again, to encourage their involvement.  Perhaps if these college clubs can show productive partnerships with the racing teams, they could receive some more funding for self-promotion and awareness raising?  Maybe we could teach them to hold their own regattas?  Do they?

Just ideas, from the FNG...

[Jonsey]

You have a good point SFLS - but i dont think money is the main issue (although it is something to consider).   Time and hassle is.   It's pretty difficult to round up and coordinate 5 - 10 people to race a big boat, which is one of the reasons Dulcinea has been sitting @ dock for the last 18 months.  One bad egg in the program can ruin the regatta for the whole lot..   Cost is an entry barrier for much the youth but not a good excuse for most - most of the bass fishermen spend more on their boats / tourney's than I do racing...  if you consider the viper, they spend triple!

AYC is doing a test drive day (see thread in main forum) this Sat.   Someone has taken gone out and put up posters around town and at all the local gyms..  THATS how you're goign to grow the sport - introduce people to it in a non-biased fashion.  Expected attendance for that event is so high we're goign to have at least 2 - 3 J80s and Vipers available..  There will also be a J105 out taking rides.  Good stuff. 

As for youth - the guys up at Lakefest this past weekend did a VERY smart thing;  they invited all the local(ish) college sailing teams to come participate.   They had kids from OU, A&M and North Texas just to name a few.  They furnished them with a few cabins, the rest camped.   Those kids filled out a bunch of large boats that are usually under-crewed.    It was neat to hear them talk about wanting to get a boat or become steady crew when they get out of college. 

IMHO, this handicap stuff plays a small part in killing the sport.   

[Bee]

I definitely agree we should have an Austin type show here, and, in point of fact, we almost do --- GBCA's Basic Sailboat Racing Seminar.  I think this is a really good starting point.  This puts the guys who want to learn to race through the ropes and then takes them out to sail.  Publicize this more, find a very public place to allow people to jump on board and your there.  GBCA did this last year fairly successfully and I think if we all work at it, we can make it into something special.

As to getting young blood out, I have observed that many of the 25- bunch likes speed.  That speaks to Cats, Tris, Vipers, Melges of all stripes, and the like.  Definitely need to provide rides for that as well.

By the way Dr. Box, how did this go last year?

[harris]

remember the good ol days

i don't know why we got away from olympic circle at hyc for the one designs and fixed marks for cruiser racers
it was so much easier, the racers didn't need to wait for the race committee to make the line perfect and wait for the perfect wind, we just let the racers deal with it, and the committee didn't feel they needed to make it perfect.

cruisers could go around long fixed courses and for those non rabid racers they felt like they were out for a cruise .

then one day one of the cruisers was beat by his friend on the pier so secretly he scrubbed his bottom before the next race and a new racer was born. then the sailmaker convinced his friend into a new jib and a rivalry happened.

sailing cruiser racers around less then one mile W-L requires more skill and crew

i sail up east and they give a 6 sec or 9 sec rating benefit to what they call cruisers for someone who wants to try a spinnaker but not have a full complement of spins or jibs. they only allow that rating benefit with just one jib and one spin onboard. that way they get try out the spin and some become racers.

allow 2 boats to make a one design class start. some of best racing i have ever done was with just two solings on the line. then maybe next time there will be three

just some more 'two cents"