Curmudgeon II finsihed at 7:51:01 Under Protest

CurmudgeonII · August 14, 2010, 10:57:57 PM

I am sick and tired of being luffed up and boats in GBCA cruising flying spinnakers, are there no sailors in this association with integrity. Is winning a bottle of RUM that important?

Tye Dyed Gary · August 15, 2010, 11:22:23 AM

I have sailed all but 4 or 5 Rum Races for the past 15 years. The only times I have seen one boat luff another is when the boat luff puts itself in in that position and fails to stay clear. The boats that turn out for the TGIF/S races adhere to the Rules of the Road and US Sailing Rules. I, witnessed a 36ft. boat go head to wind at mark 'E' and force a Tayana 52 alter course, on the June 12th race, is that the type of luffing you are questioning?
As for Cruiser's flying Spinnaker, Check the pennant that is being flown off the back of the boat. There are some Cruiser's,out at the same time as the Rum Race actually Cruising and trying out the spinnaker that came with there sail inventory. Besides you don't have to be a racer to fly a spinnaker, just fly a white pennant.
I have been on first place boats and last place and everything in between and I've always enjoyed sharing a rum drink and BS'ing about the fun of sailing and who did what at the party.
have a great day.

Bee · August 15, 2010, 12:20:49 PM

Here's the rule in question:

Luffing shall be defined as changing course to windward after another has approached within two boat lengths from any direction. A boat passing to windward or leeward must maintain at least two boat lengths to either side until no overlap exists. The intent is to banish those cases where leeward boats attack the windward boat by luffing. If followed, this rule should prevent or at minimize accidents and maybe even contribute to a more pleasant evening.

Last night Larry Blankenhagen on Parrottales followed this rule to perfection. As Stinger approached from astern, but outside the two-boat circle (I guessed this based on Parrottales length), Larry appeared to head up as high as he could to try to keep Stinger form passing to windward. However, as soon as Stinger was within two-boat lengths he not only held his ground he actually fell off to allow us to pass. I think we managed to keep a two boat length distance but I'm not sure. I am sure that we passed by at a safe distance and I am completely sure that Larry and crew followed the rule exactly. This is the kind of sportsmanship we should all try to follow and I applaud Larry for it.

ChrisA · August 15, 2010, 12:57:14 PM

Terry,

As far as the spinnaker thing, you are missing one key part. In the Club Handicap class, as well as the SOS class, the fleets are mixed with spin and non-spin boats. Assuming the PHRF ratings are correct, it shouldn't make any difference. The boat in question, I presume, is Shaken Not Stirred. They started the season by reporting their spinnaker rating of 93. You reported your non-spinnaker rating of 147. Again, if PHRF is right, there shouldn't be any issues. In fact, over the course of the year, their rating has been lowered to 82, and yours has been raised to 182. This all in the interest of making all boats more equal based not only on projected performance, but actual performance. I agree that if Shaken had started the year using their non-spin rating and flew their kite anyway, that would be unfair. However, their rating would have been quickly lowered based on their performance, and by now they would be carrying the rating they presently have.

I know it may be frustrating and look like cheating, but remember, the faster you go, relative to the other boats, the more you get penalized. Is it perfect? No. But, it's really quite fair.

We really appreciate your enthusiasm. Keep that old NM out there and start lowering your Club Handicap rating.

Chris

CurmudgeonII · August 15, 2010, 03:23:58 PM

Thanks for the clarification on GBCA Cruising with Spinnaker. i did not think Spinnakers were allowed in this class at all, regardless of the rating.
As for the luffing me out, and the explanation from Bednar, it is clear that numerous times I attempted to pass Lil Bit O Sol within the 2 boats links and they took me up every time. Clearly in violation of the rules. IT WILL BE REMEMBERED.

MaryM · August 15, 2010, 03:44:08 PM

In accordance with the NOR, we do not hear protests for these races. If you feel someone has violated the rules it is your responsibility to take it up with them directly for resolution. Posting your grievences here is fine but it is not going to cause any action to be taken, that rests soley on your shoulders to have a discussion in person.

To insinuate that the membership of GBCA has no integrity is a totally inappropriate comment.

Eric713 · August 15, 2010, 05:20:45 PM

Bee. Curmudgeon attempted numerous times to pass to windward on the last leg. After numerous attempts, he finally closed to within one boat length and attempted to pass to windward with what would have been less then one boat length lateral separation. We never had an overlap. When he backed off, I fell off to proper course which was to finish on the left side at marker 1. I did this for aprox. 4 miles. If I was wrong here, I would appreciate clarification. I normally wouldn't get in to this, but since our boat name was mentioned, I thought it would be a good idea to address this on line.

Bee · August 15, 2010, 08:13:20 PM

Not going to get into this one. Traditionally, in the Rum Races, it is expected that the boats with an issue relative to each other should settle this between themselves.

gwittich · August 17, 2010, 06:15:25 AM

Terry, Figaro did not fly the spinnaker during the most recent race but on two prior rum races.
We did this only after our Club handicap rating had dropped down to our spinnaker rating (Club 136, PHRRF spin 132, LYC club spin 138).
I had also checked with Kevin prior to using the spinnaker.
I believe our approach was fair.

Gerhard Wittich

STuma · August 17, 2010, 08:50:22 AM

Quote from: Eric713 on August 15, 2010, 05:20:45 PM
Bee. Curmudgeon attempted numerous times to pass to windward on the last leg. After numerous attempts, he finally closed to within one boat length and attempted to pass to windward with what would have been less then one boat length lateral separation. We never had an overlap. When he backed off, I fell off to proper course which was to finish on the left side at marker 1. I did this for aprox. 4 miles. If I was wrong here, I would appreciate clarification. I normally wouldn't get in to this, but since our boat name was mentioned, I thought it would be a good idea to address this on line.

I was not close enough to witness, but I have seen this scenerio before... The boat behind needs to make a decision; stay high enough where the boat in front does not feel threatened, or dive low enough to sail below them and aim at the mark... I fully understand the difficulty with either of these ideas, but that is what needs to be done when one is faster than the other...

I believe this anti-luffing rule was instigated to keep boats safer... Many people bring out family and beginers and do not need to worry about the technicallities of luffing...

The communication between boats is also crucial... We had a "close-encounter" with a boat because of "tactical" reasons (long discussion Saturday night) & the boats crossed only about 20' apart... I think we agree to disagree on the "legality" of the issue, but we shoudl have communicated before hand... another lesson learned for both of us...

hayesrigging · August 17, 2010, 09:03:04 AM

The "no luffing" rule has been in place as long as I can remember for the rum races. I believe it was originally there because in the early to mid 90's the races were run alternately between Friday and Sat. nights. On Psyched (rating 78) our Friday night start time was about 7:25 and on Sat. an hour earlier. The original intent of the rule from my belief was for night sailing because most of the races were conducted at night.

The no luffing rule is hard to enforce and police. It is also hard as a slower boat to avoid luffing and just let someone roll you. That goes completey against any racers mindset of sailboat racing!!! I personally think the RRS cover everything and if everyone follows the rules then even the boats with novice or beginner sailors on board will be fine.

Kevin Bednar · August 17, 2010, 12:01:56 PM

It's a rabbit start so if luffing were allowed the faster boats would be at a disadvantage because all of the slower boats start ahead of them and would have the right to luff them up. Mojo and company would have to risk being luffed up by practically every boat in the fleet, while the first boat to start would likely never have to worry about it.

The rule is an attempt at fairness. Besides, it's a rum race. You'll get to enjoy some of the trophy regardless of where you place.

JayZ · August 17, 2010, 12:43:00 PM

I always figure that the no luffing and two boat length rule should be communicated on the water.

These are simply fun races and I've seen people out there match racing and taking each other up - way off the lay line simply for fun! It is fun to mess with your sailing buddies once in a while in a no-stress fun venue like a rum race. I don't think the rum races are always to be taken so seriously - just have fun.

I do think that courtesy should always be shown to any new racers out there and of course if someone hails "2 boat lengths" or "no luffing" we should all obey. These are the rules of course.

I'd say to the skipper of Curmudgeon that I know where you are coming from but be careful with some of those accusations you are a bit off base. This group is full of gentleman on the water. ...except for maybe that Bond Boat and of course any fool that sailed around with a two masted boat

Keep coming out have fun and if you feel someone is luffing or within the 2 boat length rule, hail them.

Cheers,
JZ

Eric713 · August 17, 2010, 04:57:34 PM

Lil Bit A Sol Here. Terry attempted to pass to leeward at approx. two boat lengths. We even said Hi! to those guys. We did not change course because he was far enough away and we were aiming at marker 1. I guess he got in our shadow and fell back. He then attempted to go above us but well within two lateral boat lengths. I took him up. Numerous times I might add. If he passed well above us we would not have changed course because it would have taken us too far from marker 1. I also question the issue of integrity. I don't believe yelling F___Bombs at the competition with women on board is very professional. I was hoping Terry would show up at the social afterwards to discuss this incident for clarification. We've only been in GBCA since last April. I believe LUFFING would involve an overlap, which never occurred when he was windward. I'm always willing to learn and have no desire to iritate anybody. Additional comments would be welcomed. Thank you.

edthemainsailguy · August 17, 2010, 06:23:53 PM

from where i trim i always thought the no luffing rule was about keeping the fun in the evening....obviously, we all race to win, but as Kevin B. pointed out, "it's a rum race"...whenever a faster boat has been on the quarter of any boat I have crewed on...they passed us, if they could, without worry of being "taken up"...it's against the spirit of rum racing...